RivianTrackr: "Stop Buying EVs for the Trip You Take Twice a Year"

[Thebandit]

I've had my leased R1T for a year and had to rent a car for a road trip that was not easily doable with the R1T, DFW area to rural area outside of Branson, MO. Spending money to rent a car, the time to go out and rent it, driving something less comfortable than the R1T, left a really bad taste in my mouth.

My next vehicle will not be an EV. When I look at total cost of ownership, new EV depreciation is so atrocious that any electricity savings you get are

My R1T has lost, according to Carvana, $28k off MSRP in a year and 10k miles. Taking in discounts I would've received buying the car the real depreciation number is ~$15k. Add in higher insurance prices, faster tire wear, lower maintenance costs, and cheap TX gas, by my math a Rivian R2 would cost as much to own over 5 years as a Lexus GX, and much more to own than a 4Runner. For me, the EV powertrain and home charging isn't "worth" the money I would save over time with a gas vehicle, and I don't have to worry about certain road trips being possible. I know for a fact I can't make a convenient trip out to Big Bend NP in my so-called adventure vehicle. Maybe in 5 years, but not today.

Yeah if I didn't have a second ICE vehicle, owning an EV would not really be feasible for me. I get you.

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[tgo10000]

I've had my leased R1T for a year and had to rent a car for a road trip that was not easily doable with the R1T, DFW area to rural area outside of Branson, MO. Spending money to rent a car, the time to go out and rent it, driving something less comfortable than the R1T, left a really bad taste in my mouth.

My next vehicle will not be an EV. When I look at total cost of ownership, new EV depreciation is so atrocious that any electricity savings you get are

My R1T has lost, according to Carvana, $28k off MSRP in a year and 10k miles. Taking in discounts I would've received buying the car the real depreciation number is ~$15k. Add in higher insurance prices, faster tire wear, lower maintenance costs, and cheap TX gas, by my math a Rivian R2 would cost as much to own over 5 years as a Lexus GX, and much more to own than a 4Runner. For me, the EV powertrain and home charging isn't "worth" the money I would save over time with a gas vehicle, and I don't have to worry about certain road trips being possible. I know for a fact I can't make a convenient trip out to Big Bend NP in my so-called adventure vehicle. Maybe in 5 years, but not today.

That’s weird I lived in Springfield, Mo for 10 years and regularly took trips to Dallas in the R1T, R1S and MachE. Not everyone is ready for EVs and that’s totally fine. EVs take more planning and preparation which many are totally fine with. Good luck with your transition.

 

[Thebandit]

That’s weird I lived in Springfield, Mo for 10 years and regularly took trips to Dallas in the R1T, R1S and MachE. Not everyone is ready for EVs and that’s totally fine. EVs take more planning and preparation which many are totally fine with. Good luck with your transition.

It's not about whether everyone is ready. I've spoken in this thread about trips that I have done and will do that are essentially impossible with an EV. EVs are less capable when it comes to putting lots of miles on the road and that's simply a fact. It's about whether you care enough about the other aspects of EV ownership to make it more difficult or impossible to do certain things.

 

[rvnxyz001]

I've had my leased R1T for a year and had to rent a car for a road trip that was not easily doable with the R1T, DFW area to rural area outside of Branson, MO. Spending money to rent a car, the time to go out and rent it, driving something less comfortable than the R1T, left a really bad taste in my mouth.

My next vehicle will not be an EV. When I look at total cost of ownership, new EV depreciation is so atrocious that any electricity savings you get are

My R1T has lost, according to Carvana, $28k off MSRP in a year and 10k miles. Taking in discounts I would've received buying the car the real depreciation number is ~$15k. Add in higher insurance prices, faster tire wear, lower maintenance costs, and cheap TX gas, by my math a Rivian R2 would cost as much to own over 5 years as a Lexus GX, and much more to own than a 4Runner. For me, the EV powertrain and home charging isn't "worth" the money I would save over time with a gas vehicle, and I don't have to worry about certain road trips being possible. I know for a fact I can't make a convenient trip out to Big Bend NP in my so-called adventure vehicle. Maybe in 5 years, but not today.

EVs make the most financial sense if you drive something like 100 miles a day, especially in city traffic, where an ICE turbo will burn a lot of gas and rack up maintenance costs. But if most of your driving is on highways or suburban roads, a Lexus, Toyota, or Subaru hybrid, or even an efficient ICE vehicle, will be cheaper overall or about the same once you factor in EV depreciation.

And I agree that vehicles like the 4Runner, GX, or RX, despite their high initial cost, will be much cheaper to own than an EV because they simply don't lose nearly as much value to depreciation. Of course, if you're buying something that already depreciates heavily, like a BMW, then an EV might still make more financial sense.

 

[CharonPDX]

Editorial

Interesting read, thanks Jose! @RivianTrackr

Yeah, I have a friend who refuses to even consider an EV, because he drives from Portland to Vancouver (BC) once a year. He's waiting for "five minute recharge time."

His husband even acknowledged that on their once a year trips to BC, they usually stop for lunch in Seattle. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[tgo10000]

It's not about whether everyone is ready. I've spoken in this thread about trips that I have done and will do that are essentially impossible with an EV. EVs are less capable when it comes to putting lots of miles on the road and that's simply a fact. It's about whether you care enough about the other aspects of EV ownership to make it more difficult or impossible to do certain things.

Just because that’s your experience doesn’t make it fact, many people do lots of road trips including myself that don’t have perfect charging situations. I’m sure many were satisfied with a horse and buggy until gas stations became more numerous too. Charging between MO and Port Aransas in 2023 wasn’t as easy as it today. You can point out your experience and I can point out mine.

 

[rvnxyz001]

EVs take more planning and preparation which many are totally fine with.

I would say bad EV infrastructure and slow charging requires to do more planning

 

[Thebandit]

Just because that’s your experience doesn’t make it fact, many people do lots of road trips including myself that don’t have perfect charging situations. I’m sure many were satisfied with a horse and buggy until gas stations became more numerous too. Charging between MO and Port Aransas in 2023 wasn’t as easy as it today. You can point out your experience and I can point out mine.

I'm not arguing that EVs can't do road trips. But you can do fewer miles per day in an EV. That's an indisputable fact. You have to spend time charging that you could be spending driving, at a museum, hiking, or whatever. There is a camping trip I do every year where I would need to take about 2 hours out of one of my days to drive over to a DCFC site to charge up.

These are simply facts. It's not about whether someone is "ready." It's about whether you accept those limitations.

 

[tgo10000]

I'm not arguing that EVs can't do road trips. But you can do fewer miles per day in an EV. That's an indisputable fact. You have to spend time charging that you could be spending driving, at a museum, hiking, or whatever. There is a camping trip I do every year where I would need to take about 2 hours out of one of my days to drive over to a DCFC site to charge up.

These are simply facts. It's not about whether someone is "ready." It's about whether you accept those limitations.

Sure and a lot of time that difference may be exaggerated. Most people have to stop to eat, use the restroom or just stretch especially families traveling. That doesn’t mean there aren’t specific cases that are more challenging, I’m not saying that.

https://apple.news/AFvC5YXFjRByh_KszFQ_5mA

 

[rvnxyz001]

I'm not arguing that EVs can't do road trips. But you can do fewer miles per day in an EV. That's an indisputable fact. You have to spend time charging that you could be spending driving, at a museum, hiking, or whatever. There is a camping trip I do every year where I would need to take about 2 hours out of one of my days to drive over to a DCFC site to charge up.

These are simply facts. It's not about whether someone is "ready." It's about whether you accept those limitations.

Exactly. EV people often focus almost entirely on charging speed and miss the more basic point: having to stop more often is itself annoying.

Imagine replacing every gas station with an EV charger, and charging takes exactly as long as pumping gas. Now imagine buying an ICE or hybrid that only goes about 200 miles on a tank. Would anyone call that good? No, people would complain constantly about having to stop for fuel every couple of hours.

So even if charging eventually becomes as fast as filling a gas tank, limited highway range is still limited highway range. Fast charging solves the time spent at the stop. It doesn't solve having to stop so often in the first place.

 

[SwampNut]

Sure and a lot of time that difference may be exaggerated. Most people have to stop to eat, use the restroom or just stretch especially families traveling.

It's well proven that people underestimate their gas time, sometimes by a huge margin. On holiday weekends I've actually seen the gasholes spending more time waiting to fuel than it took me to charge. And I went and had a good healthy lunch while they sat in their cars inching forward and breathing 80 cars' fumes, wasting more gas idling.

 

[rvnxyz001]

Sure and a lot of time that difference may be exaggerated. Most people have to stop to eat, use the restroom or just stretch especially families traveling. That doesn’t mean there aren’t specific cases that are more challenging, I’m not saying that.

https://apple.news/AFvC5YXFjRByh_KszFQ_5mA

That argument is mostly bullshit because it assumes you can choose exactly where you stop.

If your real highway range is closer to 200 miles once you leave a reasonable reserve, that doesn't mean you conveniently drive 200 miles and charge. Chargers aren't everywhere. On a 200-mile trip you might have to stop after 100–120 miles because that's the last reliable charger on your route. Or you arrive near your destination with 15–20% and then have to go searching for a charger because you don't have enough range to comfortably drive back.

Sure, families stop for food and bathrooms. But there's a huge difference between stopping when you want to and stopping because the car dictates where and when you have to stop.

 

[SwampNut]

That argument is mostly bullshit because it assumes you can choose exactly where you stop.

No, though it assumes that you have SOME choices.

 

[tgo10000]

That argument is mostly bullshit because it assumes you can choose exactly where you stop.

If your real highway range is closer to 200 miles once you leave a reasonable reserve, that doesn't mean you conveniently drive 200 miles and charge. Chargers aren't everywhere. On a 200-mile trip you might have to stop after 100–120 miles because that's the last reliable charger on your route. Or you arrive near your destination with 15–20% and then have to go searching for a charger because you don't have enough range to comfortably drive back.

Sure, families stop for food and bathrooms. But there's a huge difference between stopping when you want to and stopping because the car dictates where and when you have to stop.

Bullshit is an interesting word choice for a discussion point that was illustrated with a real word third party example. Not particularly illuminating but your opinion is noted.

 

[rvnxyz001]

Bullshit is an interesting word choice for a discussion point that was illustrated with a real word third party example. Not particularly illuminating but your opinion is noted.

I apologize, "bullshit" wasn't directed at you personally. I meant the range argument itself, regardless of who makes it.

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