Stop being a slave to the pump. What I realized driving a V8 loaner.

[docwhiz]

People forget that electricity rates will only continue to rise, and states have caught onto EV's and now charge extra EV registration fee's and/or taxes. IMO EV's won't be any cheaper to operate than petrol vehicles in the next 5 years unless you have a ton of solar at home and don't always take long road trips.

What makes you think electricity rates will "only continue to rise" when the cost of electricity from renewables continues to fall?

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[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

 

[SDH]

As someone who is fortunate to be able to choose both EV & ICE, I would caveat with:

- EV incentives are going to disappear over time and taxes on EV will inevitably rise (someone on this forum only yesterday posted how much it costs to renew their CA registration for their R1T)
- Insurance for EV vs ICE (way higher)
- Unless you can charge at home/work, hassle factor vs convenience of filling at a gas station

The other day it cost me $30 to fill up my R1T at an EA station. I tried the day before but 2/4 EA units were broken, the other 2 in use. Got up early to go back to said EA station next day and spent c.50mins filling up.

Now I can fill up my very inefficient Jeep for $80-90 (get miles 360 miles range vs 280 miles for the R1T) in 5 mins. Couple this much lower insurance, vehicle tax and tire wear (servicing is a minimal cost right now) and it makes me think owning an EV ain't the slam dunk we all like to think it is.

 

[orionexp]

This is what I realized when Rivian took away my ability to fill up a vehicle with fuel/energy for $15 and replaced it with a loaner v8 Jeep Wagoneer vehicle that instead needs $80 of dinosaur juice to fill up.


Stop being a slave to the pump.

I’m done with spending $80 at the pump every week to put 20-25 gallons into a vehicle that gets 15 mpg - 20 mpg.

im not here trying to save the environment

I’m here trying to save my wallet and I’m done with making the Saudis rich beyond their wildest dream.

I’m here trying to fill up my Fidelity brokerage account with the money I save on gas so I can retire early instead of helping the sheikh buy his 1st soccer team, 8th mansion and 13th Bugatti.

Stop being a slave to the pump in 2023.

Voluntary oil production cuts have just been extended. You can thank Russia and Saudi Arabia for that gift that keeps on giving.

Don’t even get me started on the 50 kW charger by my house that charges me a flat penny for unlimited charging session.

I’m not here to save the environment, I’m here to save my wallet first.

And the CONVENIENCE of having a fueling station in your garage cannot be overstated!

 

[elektrode]

What makes you think electricity rates will "only continue to rise" when the cost of electricity from renewables continues to fall?

Cause The Man, and his share holders, want that money.

Almost all of us are “little people”.

 

[Mathme]

We put solar on both of our houses in 2021 & 2022 and here's a couple of thoughts:

1. This is an improvement to your house this will help with resell value;
2. There are a ton of companies out there that offer financing for these projects. We got 0% down, 0% interest (.99% on one house), 25 year warranty, 25 year term. If you sell before 25 years, proceeds on your house pay off the solar. This is using someone else's money to lock in your electricity rates.
3. there is a 25% federal rebate on solar install costs
4. We added a battery back up at our main house. When the power went out in the Bay Area last spring, we had lights, power to run our gas furnace and hot water, electric to our refrigerators, and power to additional lights (that ran extension cords for internet and TV).
5. The Bay Area Electric company (PG&E) charges about .45 per kW to normal customers and with surge pricing, that rate can go up to the 50s. With Electric, our rates are .13 most of the day and during surge hours, it increases to .26 per kW.

In my v8 Audi, right now it would have cost about $140 in Dino Juice to drive the 500 mile trip to our second house and back. With the free RAN charging on the way there, our cost is now ~$20 to charge to 85% at both houses. When the free Ran charging goes away (boo to when it does), we figure our round trip costs will be in the $80-90 Range...still a savings of $40+.

I also did the math when we first got the R1T and with our average driving per year over the past few years, I figured our savings in transportation costs would be about $1800/year. Loving the electric!

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

And the CONVENIENCE of having a fueling station in your garage cannot be overstated!

I try to explain this to people all the time and it's like talking to a wall. With my old truck and my daily commute, I was having to stop for gas 2-3 times every week. Of course I wanted that Costco membership discount, so that meant driving to Costco a couple times a week. Which isn't far, but with the horrible traffic in my area it's about 30 minutes. So now instead of driving by the Costco a few times a week and waiting in that line just to save a few bucks, I'm saving a lot more bucks (and time) by just going home and plugging in.

Ultimately for me the time savings means getting to spend more time with my family, and that's the most important thing to me right now.

 

[docwhiz]

We put solar on both of our houses in 2021 & 2022 and here's a couple of thoughts:

1. This is an improvement to your house this will help with resell value;
2. There are a ton of companies out there that offer financing for these projects. We got 0% down, 0% interest (.99% on one house), 25 year warranty, 25 year term. If you sell before 25 years, proceeds on your house pay off the solar. This is using someone else's money to lock in your electricity rates.
3. there is a 25% federal rebate on solar install costs
4. We added a battery back up at our main house. When the power went out in the Bay Area last spring, we had lights, power to run our gas furnace and hot water, electric to our refrigerators, and power to additional lights (that ran extension cords for internet and TV).
5. The Bay Area Electric company (PG&E) charges about .45 per kW to normal customers and with surge pricing, that rate can go up to the 50s. With Electric, our rates are .13 most of the day and during surge hours, it increases to .26 per kW.

In my v8 Audi, right now it would have cost about $140 in Dino Juice to drive the 500 mile trip to our second house and back. With the free RAN charging on the way there, our cost is now ~$20 to charge to 85% at both houses. When the free Ran charging goes away (boo to when it does), we figure our round trip costs will be in the $80-90 Range...still a savings of $40+.

I also did the math when we first got the R1T and with our average driving per year over the past few years, I figured our savings in transportation costs would be about $1800/year. Loving the electric!

I started installing solar PV 8 years ago and now have 5 arrays which provide most of the power for the three houses on our property.
All of the solar arrays have paid for themselves as of last year so most of my electricity is free (including charging a Tesla and a Rivian). We have net metering with no TOU and constant rate of about $0.20 kWh.
I've had Teslas for 8 years and I figure I've saved $40,000 in fuel and maintenance. I most appreciate not having to go to the dealer every few months for oil change, filters, and full lube (both my car and my wallet), etc. Not going to the gas station is also a big plus.

 

[MidnightRivian]

As someone who is fortunate to be able to choose both EV & ICE, I would caveat with:

- EV incentives are going to disappear over time and taxes on EV will inevitably rise (someone on this forum only yesterday posted how much it costs to renew their CA registration for their R1T)
- Insurance for EV vs ICE (way higher)
- Unless you can charge at home/work, hassle factor vs convenience of filling at a gas station

The other day it cost me $30 to fill up my R1T at an EA station. I tried the day before but 2/4 EA units were broken, the other 2 in use. Got up early to go back to said EA station next day and spent c.50mins filling up.

Now I can fill up my very inefficient Jeep for $80-90 (get miles 360 miles range vs 280 miles for the R1T) in 5 mins. Couple this much lower insurance, vehicle tax and tire wear (servicing is a minimal cost right now) and it makes me think owning an EV ain't the slam dunk we all like to think it is.

The pros and cons of owning an ICE vehicle or EV vehicle are constantly changing.

You will see a drop in price for EV vehicles As EV Tax incentives disappear. Similar concepts when tax credits for solar panels Get reduced yearly which is slightly offset as panels become more efficient. The overall cost for solar panels and EV vehicles will go down. I can’t promise you the same for fuel and maintenance required to run ICE vehicles.

it might not be a slam dunk for 100% of the population today but as we get closer to the year 2030. The charging architecture / energy storage / station density / EPA regulatory landscape will change to the point you would have to a fan of burning money and/or a car enthusiast to continue to purchase ICE vehicles.

case In point is when Rivian agreed to adopt the NACS plug and Tesla allowed Rivian access In 2024 to their network. Rivian is even covering the cost of the adapter for existing customer.

now your reliability for charging and station density has gone up to the point EV make sense for even a larger population than Today.

I don’t mind paying $30 to fill up once a quarter when I’m away from my charging station at home. It’s better than paying $80 every week and wasting time at a gas station. The fuel alone on the Jeep is $3,650 versus $950 on the R1T. That’s 3 of my monthly payments just in fuel SAVINGS. Let’s assume the average Rivian person makes 50 cents per minute. How many minutes do you waste on maintenance per year and how much money on top?

The $7,500 tax credit easily covers another payment per year. Just the interest alone makes $31.25 PER MONTH - $375 per year. which easily cover your $30 fuel charge you mentioned.

Tesla has charging plans to reduce the cost of charging if you plan to regularly use their station for example folks who live in an apartment and wants to try the Tesla model 3 which is $29,740 after the $7,500 tax credit and 3 years of fuel savings. Camry Lame Edition - LE Hybrid cost $28,500 before dealer mark ups and addons like tint / PPF / wheel locks.

 

[HyperionMark]

Isn't solar tax credit 30% now?

 

[dgennetten]

The problem is in 5 to 7 years I'm not so sure we all won't be paying close to the same from our electric companies. They have to increase production exponentially and that will cost pretty pennies.

If I was "king for a day", huge home solar incentives to make it less than $10k. Get everyone to help power the grid.

I'd be willing to wager a new Rivian duffle bag (just bought one thanks to that great review) that the inflation-adjusted cost of electricity, on average in the US in 2028, will be less than it is today.

 

[HeyEllwood]

The problem is in 5 to 7 years I'm not so sure we all won't be paying close to the same from our electric companies. They have to increase production exponentially and that will cost pretty pennies.

If I was "king for a day", huge home solar incentives to make it less than $10k. Get everyone to help power the grid.

This 100%. Sooner or later I will have a few power walls or equivalent so that I am not fully dependent on a electric company.

It is only a matter of time before most people drive a EV or Hybrid. Once this occurs. Electric companies will ABSOLUTELY jack up the prices of electricity.

Why wouldn't they? The USA is a hyper-capitalistic country which is fueled (no pun intended) by greedy corporations.

/end rant

 

[MidnightRivian]

I try to explain this to people all the time and it's like talking to a wall. With my old truck and my daily commute, I was having to stop for gas 2-3 times every week. Of course I wanted that Costco membership discount, so that meant driving to Costco a couple times a week. Which isn't far, but with the horrible traffic in my area it's about 30 minutes. So now instead of driving by the Costco a few times a week and waiting in that line just to save a few bucks, I'm saving a lot more bucks (and time) by just going home and plugging in.

Ultimately for me the time savings means getting to spend more time with my family, and that's the most important thing to me right now.

100% facts.

folks will sell their time for minimum wage when they’re young and on their deathbed when the doctor informs them they have 6 months to live. They’re gonna wish they learned to value their time better and they would ask the doctor if it’s possible to buy more time for minimum wage just like how he sold his service for pennies on the dollar and the doctor will laugh because that’s just not possible.

learn to value your time correctly early on in your life and try to buy time where possible like skipping oil changes , brake maintenance, fueling stops, drivetrain fluid swaps, etc. just to have a tool to move you around from point A to point B.

You’re gonna wish you did on your death bed

 

[MidnightRivian]

This 100%. Sooner or later I will have a few power walls or equivalent so that I am not fully dependent on a electric company.

It is only a matter of time before most people drive a EV or Hybrid. Once this occurs. Electric companies will ABSOLUTELY jack up the prices of electricity.

Why wouldn't they? The USA is a hyper-capitalistic country which is fueled (no pun intended) by greedy corporations.

/end rant

The same competition will drive the price down on Solar and efficiency will reduce the number of panels you will need to buy.
Demand will be satisfied by adding solar panels / wind energy and hydropower.

 

[Cycliste]

Not hassling with getting an appointment and waiting for routine scheduled engine related maintenance—priceless

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