Anti-EV agenda

[BTOR]

Or purchase an extended warranty if that is a concern. There are several threads re xCare warranties. They seem quite reasonable and in line with ICE extended warranties.

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[Rade]

My concern is the comment on warranty and not being repairable.

I'm of the same mindset. Right now, I just entered year two with my R1T, and barely have over 10,000 miles on it. As the vehicle ages, I will continually re-evaluate how long do I want to stay in this particular vehicle; decisions based on when the currently warranties will expire (age / mileage). Future technology will also play a role in decisions down the road and/or what Rivian may offer for additional warranty coverage by then. I know, however, that I will never go back to a gas-powered vehicle.

I continue to be impressed by the quality of the vehicle and the ability of my local SC to effect repairs. Would love to get 8-10 years out of the Rivian.

 

[schwartz83]

Interestingly, on a local hometown Facebook post today about the city getting a couple EV trucks for fleet use through a grant, there are people from thousands of miles away coming to argue, hate, and spread FUD.

"Anti-EV agenda" is alive & well, fueled by the administration, people who are scared of change, and (probably a large percentage of) bots.

Some days I wish I'd just stayed off social media.

Rivian Forums and PlugShare are my social media.

 

[Time2Roll]

Lack of home charging will continue to exert resistance for the 35% of US households that rent.
This is the other side of range anxiety.... how often is an L3 required when no home charge is available. Especially when full 100% charge can take 60 to 90 minutes or to charge quickly to 70% but need to go at least 3x as often as filling with gas. And commercial L3 is not exactly saving much if anything to refuel.

The EV takeover is going to be a long slug.

 

[BigSkies]

Lack of home charging will continue to exert resistance for the 35% of US households that rent.
This is the other side of range anxiety.... how often is an L3 required when no home charge is available. Especially when full 100% charge can take 60 to 90 minutes or to charge quickly to 70% but need to go at least 3x as often as filling with gas. And commercial L3 is not exactly saving much if anything to refuel.

The EV takeover is going to be a long slug.

I think home charging is made out to be more of a barrier than it is. If 35% of households rent (I'll assume that number is correct out of laziness), then a significant fraction are renting single family homes, duplex's, etc that are easy to add L2 chargers to. There's usually a way to work out such installs with a landlord.

In addition, you need to look at the percentage of renters among people buying new cars. Every car that rolls off the lot has an average of ~4 owners over its lifetime.

The ratio of new car buyers that are homeowners is significantly bigger than the population at large.

 

[eddysales001]

This is an excerpt from an editorial by some generic commentator: Rivian’s rapid loss of thousands of would‑be customers did not come from a botched product launch or a viral quality scandal. It came from a policy cliff. When a key federal tax incentive vanished, a fragile demand story around premium electric trucks and SUVs was suddenly exposed, and the company’s delivery numbers show just how quickly that shock rippled through its order book.

As a sizable sample of Rivian buyers/owners, and EV buyers in general on this forum, does the end of the tax incentive spell the end of EV's? This is my experience: my Rivian didn't qualify because it wasn't "new". Previously I had a Volt and I got about half of the incentive because I just didn't make enough money. It seems like with the cancellation of the Ford Lightning and RAM electric, etc, the EV doom predictors are even more vocal. It's part of the anti-EV agenda. I even saw an article that compared the disappearance of electric vehicles when ICE vehicles became popular in the early 1900's to the current day, and predicted that EV's are going to go away again. Are EV's going to disappear? I've had three EV's (Volts count as EV's depending on how you drive) and I bought them because I like them.

My opinion is it will only last until the administration changes to an EV friendly one only because the EV manufacturers are building their business plan assuming the rebates will be there. Their business plan needs to be built ignoring any potential incentives and if they are there it is icing on the cake

 

[eddysales001]

I think home charging is made out to be more of a barrier than it is. If 35% of households rent (I'll assume that number is correct out of laziness), then a significant fraction are renting single family homes, duplex's, etc that are easy to add L2 chargers to. There's usually a way to work out such installs with a landlord.

In addition, you need to look at the percentage of renters among people buying new cars. Every car that rolls off the lot has an average of ~4 owners over its lifetime.

The ratio of new car buyers that are homeowners is significantly bigger than the population at large.

While home charging is not a barrier in the suburbs where there are single family homes it is problematic in cities where row houses and sidewalks betweenntehbjousebajsbrhebcurbbmake running power difficult and that spot in front of your houses is not guaranteed for you.

 

[Time2Roll]

In addition, you need to look at the percentage of renters among people buying new cars. Every car that rolls off the lot has an average of ~4 owners over its lifetime.

The ratio of new car buyers that are homeowners is significantly bigger than the population at large.

Interesting point. This could be part of why the secondary market is comparatively weak and depressing EV prices more than ICE vehicles.

 

[mkhuffman]

... betweenntehbjousebajsbrhebcurbbmake...

One of the longest words in the dictionary...

 

[BigSkies]

Interesting point. This could be part of why the secondary market is comparatively weak and depressing EV prices more than ICE vehicles.

I doubt it. The supply of used EV's as a percent of of the total fleet is still insignificant. The total US vehicle fleet was still less than 2% EV last time I checked.

It might become a factor when EV's are maybe a third of used vehicles, but that's a long ways away.

Multi-family properties will start figuring out charging once their customers start having the vehicles and demanding it.

I suspect that EV's depreciate roughly to the price of comparable gas cars. There's no real EV premium or discount in the used market. It's just a car.

 

[SANZC02]

While home charging is not a barrier in the suburbs where there are single family homes it is problematic in cities where row houses and sidewalks betweenntehbjousebajsbrhebcurbbmake running power difficult and that spot in front of your houses is not guaranteed for you.

This is true of multi tenant buildings but there are a lot of EVs here is SoCal in apartments and Condos. The owners charge at work if available or use one of the many DCFC stations here. If people buy the vehicles the charging infrastructure will follow.

 

[White Shadow]

Eh. Not sure when, but we’ll be out of Dino juice at some point. Doomers like to doom whether it’s EV’s or something else.

I remember one of my teachers in high school told us that too. That was back in the 80s. But let's be realistic.....nobody alive to read this today will be alive the day that the planet has no more oil remaining.

 

[White Shadow]

I'm an example of someone who was VERY interested in switching from ICE to EV, but ultimately decided against it, at least for now. Why? Well, it certainly wasn't to save money because I never saw EVs as being less expensive overall. The price of gas versus electricity has never mattered to me. The overall cost of buying and insuring something like an R1S would more than offset any potential cost savings from operating costs, for example.

So why did I decide against EV? Simple--'I'm going to wait for the technology to mature. For me, EVs simply aren't good enough yet. I want what most people wsnt----faster charging (DC fast charging, not L2), longer ranges, and reasonable purchase costs. Does that make me anti-EV? Not really. I'm still very much interested, but just not a buyer yet. At the end of the day, we all have to make the right choices for ourselves....and for me, ICE is still the right choice. Hopefully that changes soon. I really like that new Cadillac SUV that can do 600 miles on a charge, but its pretty pricey and that big battery takes a long time to charge. We really need SS battery technology soon.

 

[BigSkies]

I remember one of my teachers in high school told us that too. That was back in the 80s. But let's be realistic.....nobody alive to read this today will be alive the day that the planet has no more oil remaining.

The climate will be unsuitable for mass human habitation long before the last drop is extracted. The upper limit on the climate's warming is greater than the upper limit of the planet's ability to support 8 billion people.

There are forcing functions that will reduce our usage of hydrocarbons long before supply limitations hit.

My best interpretations of the scientific assessment is that the agricultural systems of the planet will no longer support the full human population at around 2 to 2.5 degrees C of warming.

Although this is the type of prediction they put at "low confidence" and significantly hedge their wording on. But we're already at the point of tapping into groundwater supplies faster than they can be refilled.

We seem to be roughly on track for 3 degrees C of warming by the end of the century, although the decisions we make between now and then will have a big impact. We've already passed 1.5 degrees.

 

[White Shadow]

The climate will be unsuitable for mass human habitation long before the last drop is extracted. The upper limit on the climate's warming is greater than the upper limit of the planet's ability to support 8 billion people.

There are forcing functions that will reduce our usage of hydrocarbons long before supply limitations hit.

My best interpretations of the scientific assessment is that the agricultural systems of the planet will no longer support the full human population at around 2 to 2.5 degrees C of warming.

Although this is the type of prediction they put at "low confidence" and significantly hedge their wording on. But we're already at the point of tapping into groundwater supplies faster than they can be refilled.

We seem to be roughly on track for 3 degrees C of warming by the end of the century, although the decisions we make between now and then will have a big impact. We've already passed 1.5 degrees.

Don't worry, none of us will be alive for the next ICE Age either.

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