BlueCruise DUI

[jfoonly]

Philadelphia woman who was driving a partially automated Mustang Mach-E charged with DUI homicide

A woman was intoxicated and using a partially automated driving system when she caused a March highway crash in Philadelphia that killed two people, authorities said as they announced homicide charges against the driver.

State and federal investigators say the woman’s Ford Mustang Mach-E SUV struck the stationary vehicle of a man who had stopped on the left shoulder of I-95 to assist a driver whose car had broken down ahead of him. The March collision, which occurred around 3 a.m., killed both men.

The crash was at least the second this year involving a Mach-E striking a stationary vehicle after dark that the National Transportation Safety Board has investigated. In a February crash along Interstate 10 in San Antonio, Texas, investigators believe a Mach-E struck a Honda CR-V that was stopped in the middle lane with no lights on. The driver of the CR-V was killed.

There's apparently some question as to how much BC contributed, pay attention and certainly don't drive under the influence, or too tired!

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[RivianR1TinSFL]

Ultimately, I think the driver is still responsible for operating an automobile.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

ADAS doesn't change DUI laws. If the driver is intoxicated they aren't ready to take over the vehicle if there is a problem.

This is a terrible situation. My heart goes out to all affected.

 

[jfoonly]

I agree with both comments. Driver assistance systems require aware, attentive drivers - sober and awake. Unfortunately they might allow certain people to think they have an excuse otherwise. Only complete and full self driving for all vehicles with no capability of passenger input will change that (i.e. no driver).

 

[Yossarian]

A bit off topic, but in many states, you can get a DUI citation even while parked if the keys are in the ignition and your vehicle is running. The laws usually reference "actual control of the vehicle" but in practice, unless there is some evidence - like keys in the ignition and car running - you are unlikely to get cited for simply sitting behind the wheel while intoxicated.

I wonder what the definition of "actual control of a vehicle" is for an EV. My guess is that you could be cited for sitting behind the wheel of an EV like a Rivian where the phone app could be considered to be a key. The theory would be be that the vehicle is "running" when the app is open, so a driver behind the wheel would meet the "actual control" test.

Be interested to hear from someone who, unlike me, has a legal background and actually knows what they're talking about.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Blue cruise isn’t a substitute for sobriety. That’s a shame and a senseless tragedy.

 

[beatle]

A bit off topic, but in many states, you can get a DUI citation even while parked if the keys are in the ignition and your vehicle is running. The laws usually reference "actual control of the vehicle" but in practice, unless there is some evidence - like keys in the ignition and car running - you are unlikely to get cited for simply sitting behind the wheel while intoxicated.

I wonder what the definition of "actual control of a vehicle" is for an EV. My guess is that you could be cited for sitting behind the wheel of an EV like a Rivian where the phone app could be considered to be a key. The theory would be be that the vehicle is "running" when the app is open, so a driver behind the wheel would meet the "actual control" test.

Be interested to hear from someone who, unlike me, has a legal background and actually knows what they're talking about.

A couple of my uncles were cops. I'd hear a lot of DUI stories. They said that if they could prove you had the intention of driving, they could charge you with DUI. The keys in the ignition and running is an obvious one, but just opening the driver's door of your car while drunk with your keys on you would be reason enough for a stop,

One exception story was one guy who was in his car completely drunk and passed out in the middle of the night. If I remember this story correctly, my uncle tapped on the window to wake him up since sleeping in your car in a public place is illegal in VA (I didn't know this). The guy was indeed wasted but could not produce his keys so there was no charge for DUI. That said, he may have been taken to the drunk tank for the night, cited for sleeping in his car, and released the next day.

In a Rivian with PaaK, things may have been different (this was decades ago), though the cop would also have to know your phone could be used as a key, or otherwise prove that the vehicle was operable with you in it. Not sure if your placement in the vehicle would have any bearing on this. Sitting in the driver's seat would probably get you cited, but lying down in the backseat, maybe not.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

I'm of the personal belief that all L2 systems should be required to have active driver monitoring.

The issue is people will use them as an enabler.

To enable people to text while driving
To enable people to drive while drowsy
To enable people to drive while drunk

So instead of making driving safer these systems have actually harmed because of how much people abuse these systems.

With that being said I don't think driver monitoring can really prevent driving while under the influence. Which is disappointing since half of the PNW consist of either people texting and driving or people driving while stoned.

 

[KBabione]

Right on topic...I had seen this: Philly woman charged with DUI homicide

Maybe the tech should stop, like it did, with the Gen 1 vehicles...

 

[s4wrxttcs]

A couple of my uncles were cops. I'd hear a lot of DUI stories. They said that if they could prove you had the intention of driving, they could charge you with DUI. The keys in the ignition and running is an obvious one, but just opening the driver's door of your car while drunk with your keys on you would be reason enough for a stop,

One exception story was one guy who was in his car completely drunk and passed out in the middle of the night. If I remember this story correctly, my uncle tapped on the window to wake him up since sleeping in your car in a public place is illegal in VA (I didn't know this). The guy was indeed wasted but could not produce his keys so there was no charge for DUI. That said, he may have been taken to the drunk tank for the night, cited for sleeping in his car, and released the next day.

In a Rivian with PaaK, things may have been different (this was decades ago), though the cop would also have to know your phone could be used as a key, or otherwise prove that the vehicle was operable with you in it. Not sure if your placement in the vehicle would have any bearing on this. Sitting in the driver's seat would probably get you cited, but lying down in the backseat, maybe not.

These days the homeless problem is so massive that I can't see it being realistic to cite anyone sleeping in their car.

Around where I live its pretty common to see someone sleeping in their car.

It also seems like intoxicated driving has fallen off from being the highest risk to people texting or driving stoned. So I don't know if it would really get much priority to knock on anyone's windows sitting in their car outside a bar.

 

[waitingonanr1s]

I always worry about getting pulled over for some of the erratic moves highway assist makes from time to time. It drives like it's drunk sometimes.

 

[COdogman]

What a stupid thing to do.

I've never understood why police charge people with DUI for sleeping in cars. Seems to me sleeping in your car if you had too many drinks is safer than driving and they should not want to scare people into actually driving by handing out tickets for car sleeping.

I know in my younger years I did that a couple times. I would have caught a cab to a hotel but I was poor

 

[beatle]

Virginia is full of silly laws that have no equal in any other state. This thread is already off the rails, but out of curiosity I looked up whether it's legal to sleep in your car in other states. Looks like VA is the only one (other than when you're drunk)

https://smartfinancial.com/is-it-illegal-to-sleep-in-your-car

I agree that if you're asleep - especially not in the driver's seat - you're probably not worth waking up. When I had my first Model S, I slept in it in my buddy's driveway when a bunch of my college friends and I got together for a football game, and sleeping space was at a premium in his townhouse for all 17 of us. At the end of the night I was in no shape for a bicycle, much less a car. Being in the driveway aside, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that I was preparing to drive since I was in the hatch with the rear seats down, and I'd inflated an air mattress and set up sheets and a pillow. HVAC ran all night and was pretty comfortable even though it was 35 degrees and raining outside. I wonder if that night would have been legal in Vermont (my car was a 2015)...

Allowed but you cannot keep the car operating solely for the AC for a 60-minute period (only for certain models prior to 2018).​

 

[Yossarian]

. . . At the end of the night I was in no shape for a bicycle, much less a car.

Ironically, in some states, you can be cited for impaired operation of a bicycle. Some states have specific laws about operating a bicycle under the influence, in others you apparently can loose your motor vehicle license. What I've heard is that the latter is the case if you're stopped for drunk pedaling, and when asked for identification, produce your driver's license.

Again, would love to hear from the lawyers among us on such an important topic.

 

[SunilGangwar]

This is a really tragic situation, and it definitely makes you think about how serious impaired or distracted driving can be, even with newer technology in the car. I remember a time when I was driving late at night, a bit tired and just trying to get home. I wasn’t drunk, but I was definitely too tired to be on the road safely. I almost fell asleep at the wheel a few times, and that was a huge wake-up call for me. I pulled over, took a break, and let myself rest before continuing. It’s so important to know when to stop, even if you think you’re fine. If you're ever in a situation where you need help, whether it’s from a DUI or a different charge, reaching out to a DUI lawyer from olenfirm.com can make all the difference in handling things properly.

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