Doug DeMuro Can't Stop Praising R2

[wiley one]

The R2 having like 200hp more than the iX3 at launch is a big deal I think. We’ll see.

BMW iX3 having over 400 mile range and a full dealer network will be a big deal, I think. Saw it at BMW Welt while on a trip in Germany recently. Looks great in person. Still have an R2 ordered but also on the list at Local BMW dealer. We will see.

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[JasonK]

There is a lot to like about that IX3. That fast charging and longer range and the screen across the bottom of the windshield and most likely better quality and reliability than the Rivian. But I believe the Rivian R2 will be more affordable and that ground clearance will come in really handy when we get 10+ inches of snow overnight and I need to get around. Plus I do go off road a bit when camping and hunting. Some of those roads I would never take a BMW on. I hope Rivian invested more on quality control and will not have so many issues with the R2. I know the simpler design will most likely have less issues for sure. Plus I am sure the engineers learned from the R1 and engineered it to have less issues.

 

[MClayton]

There is a lot to like about that IX3. That fast charging and longer range and the screen across the bottom of the windshield and most likely better quality and reliability than the Rivian. But I believe the Rivian R2 will be more affordable and that ground clearance will come in really handy when we get 10+ inches of snow overnight and I need to get around. Plus I do go off road a bit when camping and hunting. Some of those roads I would never take a BMW on. I hope Rivian invested more on quality control and will not have so many issues with the R2. I know the simpler design will most likely have less issues for sure. Plus I am sure the engineers learned from the R1 and engineered it to have less issues.

The faster charging, much better range, and dealer networks are all pluses of the BMX and Volvo. I'm surprised there isn't a 400 mile range R2 option given how much time Rivian has had to develop the R2.

 

[Just Passing By]

Apparently one in three iX3 are sold to customers new to the brand. US launch is late Summer, lets see how it does in US finicky EV market.

Plus BMW's always lease well. I bet similar trim levels to R2, the iX3 leases better even if price is higher with options.

The main issue for those that want an iX3 and also how much competition iX3 presents to R2 for the next two years, is going to be how many will be available for the US market in 2026/27.

If the Mexico plant doesn't start production until August 2027, then it won't make a large impact on US supply for 2027. That means Hungary's 150k max output has to supply Europe and the US. So you have to wonder how many get allocated to the US, especially in 2026 while Hungary is still ramping, with such high demand already in Europe.

As to price. I thought someone had said that BMW had increased the price in Europe already by about $2k? Even if BMW hold to the $60k MSRP for the US, then what will the US dealers do? A $2.5k markup, $5k, more?

 

[TexasBob]

I had Gemini run a side-by-side comparison on a road trip I am doing next week 670 miles each way from Houston to Big Bend. For the R2 I used a 315 miles EPA range assumed and a 27 minute 10-80 charging time. The R1s is our Dune with Michelin tire. (Please note that the highway speed is at 80 mph which is the limit out there in west Texas.) The AI gives both Rivians a slightly bigger drag derating at high speed (22% BMW, 26% R2, 28% R1) which I think is realistic.

Bottom line: on a big road trip like this one, according to Gemini you are eating around 35 minutes a day of extra charging in an R2 vs the iX3.

On ABRP on the same route the R2 and R1 are the same and both are 55 minutes longer than the BMW.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I had Gemini run a side-by-side comparison on a road trip I am doing next week 670 miles each way from Houston to Big Bend. For the R2 I used a 315 miles EPA range assumed and a 27 minute 10-80 charging time. The R1s is our Dune with Michelin tire. (Please note that the highway speed is at 80 mph which is the limit out there in west Texas.) The AI gives both Rivians a slightly bigger drag derating at high speed (22% BMW, 26% R2, 28% R1) which I think is realistic.

Bottom line: on a big road trip like this one, according to Gemini you are eating around 35 minutes a day of extra charging in an R2 vs the iX3.

On ABRP on the same route the R2 and R1 are the same and both are 55 minutes longer than the BMW.

A 35 minute difference in a day of driving for something I do maybe every 6 months if that just isn't going to be a major buying consideration for me. It just doesn't move the needle.

If charging time on road trips is a significant consideration for me, I'm not buying an EV period, because the delta in refuel time between a ICE vehicle and the iX3 is bigger than the delta between the iX3 and the R2.

 

[sparked]

A 35 minute difference in a day of driving for something I do maybe every 6 months if that just isn't going to be a major buying consideration for me. It just doesn't move the needle.

If charging time on road trips is a significant consideration for me, I'm not buying an EV period, because the delta in refuel time between a ICE vehicle and the iX3 is bigger than the delta between the iX3 and the R2.

If charging is fast and even more convenient, I might use it on even more road trips. Plus in the above TexasBob scenario it's adding time but also doubling the number of stops.

For people who already have EVs, it's an easier choice since you have more experience and understand your personal usage. But the vast majority of people don't have an EV so people will hedge with wanting more. It's easier to hedge with extra range and better charging than risk too many compromises and tradeoffs that most potential customers aren't used to. It's kind of like how every pickup truck owner wants towing capability, but then rarely ever tow.

 

[Budman]

The BMW and Volvo will charge faster which I might benefit from a couple times a year. The R2 will have much better cargo space and utility which I will benefit from daily. I’ll take that trade off.

 

[DuoRivians]

The people here who are debating between R2 and iX3 won’t move the needle for either company. It’s which company will get the next marginal consumer and what do they care about?

 

[DuoRivians]

I had Gemini run a side-by-side comparison on a road trip I am doing next week 670 miles each way from Houston to Big Bend. For the R2 I used a 315 miles EPA range assumed and a 27 minute 10-80 charging time. The R1s is our Dune with Michelin tire. (Please note that the highway speed is at 80 mph which is the limit out there in west Texas.) The AI gives both Rivians a slightly bigger drag derating at high speed (22% BMW, 26% R2, 28% R1) which I think is realistic.

Bottom line: on a big road trip like this one, according to Gemini you are eating around 35 minutes a day of extra charging in an R2 vs the iX3.

On ABRP on the same route the R2 and R1 are the same and both are 55 minutes longer than the BMW.

IMO, the big opportunity for iX3 and EX60 are apartment dwellers who are interested in an EV. The 400kw and 400 mile range makes it feasible for them to own an EV and charge only once a few times a week at a fast charger and spend only 15-20 min doing so. Can’t say you can do that with an R2

 

[blipit]

A 35 minute difference in a day of driving for something I do maybe every 6 months if that just isn't going to be a major buying consideration for me. It just doesn't move the needle.

If charging time on road trips is a significant consideration for me, I'm not buying an EV period, because the delta in refuel time between a ICE vehicle and the iX3 is bigger than the delta between the iX3 and the R2.

I am just glad some brands are pushing battery tech and higher voltage architecture. It does need to be done.

When I am charging at a Buc-cees on roadtrips and look over to see 120+ fuel pumps all being used. It is chaos, imagine that amount of people trying to charge for 30min. I think to myself how in hell are we every going to get EV market share above ICE.

 

[mkhuffman]

I am just glad some brands are pushing battery tech. It does need to be done.

When I am charging at a Buc-cees on roadtrips and look over to see 120+ fuel pumps all being used. It is chaos, imagine that amount of people trying to charge for 30min. I think to myself how in hell are we every going to get EV market share above ICE.

You can't refuel a ICEV at home or at your hotel. You can't refuel it while eating at your favorite restaurant either.

You are correct: we can't replace 100% of the refueling done at gas pumps with DCFC. But we can with L2 destination charging. That's the key. And that is one of the cool things that makes BEVs better than ICEVs.

 

[mkhuffman]

Cogent, yet I really don't agree.

I think the answer most people typically give is how traveling in a BEV is more relaxing because it forces you to slow down. It forces you to take time every time you stop to look at the clouds, the grass, the pavement, the trash, and whatever else is around you because that's what you should do to soak in life.

The thing is, instead of relaxing with my coffee in a nice leather padded booth, I would rather relax with my coffee in my truck as it drives me to my next stop.

I think we make excuses for the delays because we like the technology. But they are just excuses. It is not more relaxing. It is more stressful. You can slow down if you want to even if you drive a ICEV.

 

[blipit]

You can't refuel a ICEV at home or at your hotel. You can't refuel it while eating at your favorite restaurant either.

You are correct: we can't replace 100% of the refueling done at gas pumps with DCFC. But we can with L2 destination charging. That's the key. And that is one of the cool things that makes BEVs better than ICEVs.

For around town being able to L2 charge at home is a game change. More talking about the major highways in US that run E/W and N/S. They are primarily people putting in the miles. Especially during holidays, when roads are packed with travelers. EV chargers can already be full with lines.

Destination charging is nice if hotel has it, but my roadtrips usually have at least 3-4 charging stops minimum. Not only do we need vastly better infrastructure on major highways for mass adoption. But also battery tech advancements, it has to happen.

 

[savethemanual]

Yes for around town being able to charge at home is a game change. More talking about the major highways in US the run E/W and N/S. They are primarily people putting in the miles. Especially during holidays, when roads are packed with travelers. EV chargers can already be full with lines.

Destination charging is nice if hotel has it, but my roadtrips usually have at least 3-4 charging stops minimum. Not only to we need vastly better infrastructure on major highways for mass adoption. But also battery tech advancements, it has to happen.

Recent article about how the infrastructure is certainly growing, but it's not keeping up. I know NEVI funds are still a go with current administration, those installations should start to pick up pace this year so that will help too. Also, agree the charging curve needs to vastly improve with most vehicles so folks are in and out of a charging session quicker.

https://insideevs.com/news/787253/chargepoint-data-growth-2025-demand/

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