Experience shopping for an EV9 vs R1S - Update

[manitou202]

This situation won't apply to everyone, but I want to highlight one of the big challenges Rivian faces versus the competition with their current sales model.

We are looking to trade-in our Mercedes SUV and have narrowed down our search to the Kia EV9 or the Rivian R1S. On paper, an entry level R1S looks to be similar in price to the EV9, but the reality is a much different story.

Here are some of the details so far:

Kia EV9 GT-line
Price $77,395 (fully loaded)

Rivian R1S Ideal Spec (dual motor, standard+ pack, Limestone, 22" wheels, Ocean Coast)
Price: $85,250

Difference = $7,855

At first the difference in price isn't huge, and I would 100% buy the R1S over the EV9 for an $8k difference. However the gap gets a lot bigger quickly. Here is what the numbers look like when I factor in sales tax, tax credit, trade-in value, and discounts. The are approximate numbers.

Kia EV9
OEM Discount: $3750
Trade-in: $75,000
Sales Tax (9.03%): MSPR $77,395 - Discount $3750 - Trade-in $75,000 = $0 sales tax
Colorado Tax Credit (applies to $80k MSRP or less): $5000
Final EV9 Price: $68,645

Rivian R1S
OEM Discount: $0
Trade-in (through Rivian): Unknown from Rivian, must place $1000 deposit to get trade-in quote
Trade-in third party (Best so far is Carvana): $72,000
Sales Tax (9.03): MSRP $85,250 - Discount $0 - Trade-in (assuming third party trade-in) $0 = $7698
Colorado Tax Credit: $0
Final R1S Price: $95,948 (assumes trading in vehicle to Carvana with no sales tax credit, and $3000 less for trade-in)

Difference: $27,303

A couple of considerations. I don't know what the trade-in offer will be from Rivian, and that could have a big impact especially on the sales tax credit. They really need a way to get a trade-in quote without paying $1000 deposit. Unless I'm willing to take a risk on the $1000, I have to assume I will get a low ball offer from Rivian and will need to sell the car third party.

I could remove several options from the R1S to get the MSRP under $80k which would give me the $5000 Colorado tax credit. In that situation the final difference drops to $16,306.

Rivian does offer lease rates that are very competitive compared to Kia's lease rates, so that is still an option and will likely be our path if we go with the R1S. If I lease I get access to the $7500 federal tax credit (from both Rivian or Kia) but then I lose the sales tax credit. So if I buy out the lease I need to pay 9.03% sales tax on the buyout price.

The direct to consumer model has a lot of advantages, and so does standard pricing versus negotiating with a dealership. But having the ability to get trade-in quotes, and some small room for negotiation has a lot of benefits as well. I really want the R1S but my wife likes both the cars for different reasons. It's going to be a tough sell at the moment to justify the difference in price.

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[mgc0216]

What risk are you taking on the $1000 - it's 100% refundable. Is it inconvenient, yes. Is it a risk, no.

 

[manitou202]

What risk are you taking on the $1000 - it's 100% refundable. Is it inconvenient, yes. Is it a risk, no.

It's my understanding (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) Rivian won't provide the trade-in value until you have locked your order, which the $1000 deposit no longer is refundable.

Either way, that's not a good process.

 

[mgc0216]

It's my understanding (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) Rivian won't provide the trade-in value until you have locked your order, which the $1000 deposit no longer is refundable.

Once the order is confirmed, you're right. It's non-refundable. If that's the order of events, it's broken on Rivian's side. I didn't do a trade-in, nor did I have a sales tax, but I had canceled a deposit and got a prompt refund.

 

[mkg3]

One can always find a reason or two to justify or discriminate one over another.

The value proposition is something only you can answer since it goes to your set of criteria.

And extreme example is why do people buy a 911 over a Nissan Z? Both are essentially two-seater sports car (I know 911 has a back seat for luggage).

Since you own R1T, per your vehicle list, I think you know what to expect from Rivian regardless of trade-in issue. In both cases, I would estimate the trade-in in making a decision. You can always sell the EQS-SUV to a private party or to a 3rd party, as you've noted.

At the end of the day, which vehicle do you like more and meets your criteria.

 

[COdogman]

Definitely agree Rivian should change the trade in process. Even though it ended up being very easy, by the time you get a quote from them, if you don’t like the offer you will then be scrambling around trying to sell the vehicle and delay taking delivery of your Rivian.

And for those comparing costs with another brand, it’s basically impossible. You would need to guess based on the other offers you got and that is no sure thing.

 

[oskeei]

As a Kia owner for the last 10 years and having seen the EV9 in person and owner of a R1S for almost a year. Different vehicles, the R1S interior is a lot more "finished" than the EV9 from my experience. Kids were actually all for the EV9 due to the captain seats (they grew up in a minivan so EV9 approach was near and dear to them). After looking at the EV9, kids said they wanted to stay with the S.

To each their own, but try out the S before concluding the S vs EV9 is apple to apples. Is it a $20k difference, not sure. I've been and will continue to be a Kia fan, but IMHO different audience between the S and EV9.

 

[Wing]

Isn't Tesla the same? Except it's $250 non-refundable not $1000

 

[manitou202]

One can always find a reason or two to justify or discriminate one over another.

The value proposition is something only you can answer since it goes to your set of criteria.

And extreme example is why do people buy a 911 over a Nissan Z? Both are essentially two-seater sports car (I know 911 has a back seat for luggage).

Since you own R1T, per your vehicle list, I think you know what to expect from Rivian regardless of trade-in issue. In both cases, I would estimate the trade-in in making a decision. You can always sell the EQS-SUV to a private party or to a 3rd party, as you've noted.

At the end of the day, which vehicle do you like more and meets your criteria.

Part of the reason I bring this up is trade-in is a major factor for many buyers. We would buy a Rivian tomorrow if I had a straight forward total cost. Unfortunately I don't and +/- $15,000 is a lot of money regardless of how I feel.

If Rivian is going to bank on the "we are a Porsche 911 not your Nissan Z" then they won't succeed. They need a lot more buyers, and there are some simple things they can improve like the trade-in process to help.

 

[manitou202]

As a Kia owner for the last 10 years and having seen the EV9 in person and owner of a R1S for almost a year. Different vehicles, the R1S interior is a lot more "finished" than the EV9 from my experience. Kids were actually all for the EV9 due to the captain seats (they grew up in a minivan so EV9 approach was near and dear to them). After looking at the EV9, kids said they wanted to stay with the S.

To each their own, but try out the S before concluding the S vs EV9 is apple to apples. Is it a $20k difference, not sure. I've been and will continue to be a Kia fan, but IMHO different audience between the S and EV9.

I'm well aware of the differences and trade-offs. But there are going to be a lot of people cross-shopping the EV9 and R1S.

 

[lefkonj]

I would shop around the trade in. Plenty of places want to buy good quality vehicles from people, even if they aren't replacing it with a new car.

I EV9 is slightly smaller inside and out, but nice enough.

 

[ksujeff99]

I would shop around the trade in. Plenty of places want to buy good quality vehicles from people, even if they aren't replacing it with a new car.

I EV9 is slightly smaller inside and out, but nice enough.

Lots of places to sell cars but I believe OP is stating there’s no sales tax credit in CO if they go 3rd/private party. And he won’t know the trade in value until he locks in the $1,000 deposit.

 

[usulio]

Appreciate the detailed info. But it really seems like you went out of the way to make the R1S scenario worst-case. If you pick a config under $80k and Rivian's trade-in offer is even close to competitive then the difference in price becomes much smaller.

 

[carsly]

Appreciate the detailed info. But it really seems like you went out of the way to make the R1S scenario worst-case. If you pick a config under $80k and Rivian's trade-in offer is even close to competitive then the difference in price becomes much smaller.

I think he just laid it out like it stacks up.

The rub is Rivian's prices run higher, much higher, than the EV9 so he's comparing a max spec EV9 to a lower mid-spec R1S with a regular dual-motor and Standard+ battery - far from a like-to-like max spec to max spec comparison which would be quite unfavorable for the R1S.

I would also offer assuming black book/auction value for the R1S trade scenario and you probably won't be far off which significantly swings the sales tax differential.

BUT... even so the Rivian is quite a bit more expensive. So the results stand in his case.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The rub is Rivian's prices run higher, much higher, than the EV9 so he's comparing a max spec EV9 to a lower mid-spec R1S with a regular dual-motor and Standard+ battery - far from a like-to-like max spec to max spec comparison which would be quite unfavorable for the R1S.

Kia is still planning on bringing a higher performance EV9 GT to market last I knew. (Whoever at Kia is responsible for the trim names needs to get fired. GT vs GT-Line is practically impossible to search for). Performance is likely comparable to the dual motor performance and not the quad motor R1. Range is likely to be significantly worse.

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