Fire Extinguisher usefulness

[Runs_4_beer]

Curious to hear what others think about this.

My neighbor's house burned down Wednesday (yes, related to turkey cooker, but he wasn't cooking yet and I suspect there was some faulty connections that led to this tragedy, and everyone is fine). He had two ICE vehicles in the garage where the fire started and they are burned to a crisp. My son saw the first flames and came running in yelling to grab a fire extinguisher, I was probably 30 seconds in grabbing one and out the door, but by the time I got there, the whole garage was already engulfed in flames, I assume fueled by the propane. There was nothing my little fire extinguisher would do. 911 was called and 3 fire trucks showed up shortly after.

Watching this fire has me a little freaked out now. My house is two stories, my daughter's bedroom is right above the garage. We have two EV's parked in there usually charging (a BMW i3 and an R1T). Now I'm overthinking about thermal runaway and starting a fire. Or some other ignition source starting an EV on fire.

Another neighbor who is a retired firefighter invented this fire extinguisher (https://efirex.com/), I don't really know him, but he gave me a 2L extinguisher after watching the house next door go up in flames. These are specifically designed for lithium battery fires and the website shows people putting them in the Frunks of their EVs. This was a super nice gesture and I'm very grateful to have it available. But it got me thinking. Hypothetically, even in the best-case scenario, I see/smell smoke from one of our EV's and am able to get to it with the extinguisher, this 2L bottle isn't going to even make a dent in a thermal runaway fire. Where would I spray it?

I have two 100 Amp-hour lithium batteries under my bed in my RV. It seems to me this would be a better location for the 2L lithium extinguisher.

What safety measures to you take with your EV's? The 9L bottle may be more effective, but if anything, it may just buy a couple seconds to get people out of the house. The best option I guess would be to have a whole sprinkler system in the garage with this material ready to rain down in case of a fire, but I'm not sure where those funds will come from.

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[Dark-Fx]

Trying to put out a lithium battery fire is a waste of time IMO, but I am not an expert. My understanding is that when the batteries start burning, that it's a thermal runaway issue. The only way to stop that is to take enough heat out to stop the thermal propagation.

Rivian's packs are filled with a type of foam that is supposed to reduce the propagation significantly, being both very insulative and fire resistant.

 

[SparkyR1t]

Thermal runaway of lithium batteries is pretty rare but to stop the chemical reaction thousands of gallons of water are normally required to cool the batteries to stop the reaction. There are also hazardous fumes created by the event that require self contained breathing apparatus. Basically you are probably not going to be able fight a battery fire yourself.

I also two have two EV‘s that if they ignited would trap me in the house. What I have done is install fire detection in the form of rate of rise heat detectors that would give me a few seconds advance notice of a fire in the garage to allow me to evacuate quickly. . If there were such an event I am assuming the house would be a total loss.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

You are better off investing in a good smoke and heat detection system with alerts that can trigger the entire house. I have detectors in the garage with devices that listen for the alarm sound and trigger my Home Automation system (Hubitat) to turn on escape lighting and send a voice alert over my smart speakers. Also invest in roll out escape ladder as well for 2nd story bedrooms in case escape route is blocked by fire or heavy smoke. Fighting a fire (especially an EV one) yourself is futile. Your first priority is to get yourself and your family out of your home.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

You are better off investing in a good smoke and heat detection system with alerts that can trigger the entire house. I have detectors in the garage with devices that listen for the alarm sound and trigger my Home Automation system (Hubitat) to turn on escape lighting and send a voice alert over my smart speakers. Also invest in roll out escape ladder as well for 2nd story bedrooms in case escape route is blocked by fire or heavy smoke. Fighting a fire (especially an EV one) yourself is futile. Your first priority is to get yourself and your family out of your home.

This. The only other thing I would add is if you have a ton of money you can invest in a multi-purpose piping system. This would require an entire repipe of your plumbing system but it would add fire sprinklers to your home. That would be the best thing for your house but the cost would be crazy prohibitive.

 

[Polar]

What do I think?

Don’t try to use a turkey fryer IN your garage.

Everything in this thread … not so much.

 

[BigSkies]

I agree with everything else in this thread. You’re not going to stop an EV battery fire. Or a sizeable gasoline fire.

Invest in alarms, warning systems, and escape plans. You should have these regardless of the type of car in your garage.

To take it a step further you could remove things from your garage that might be a source of combustion like gasoline for garden tools or a gas water heater.

 

[CharonPDX]

Thermal runaway in an EV won't be stopped by a handheld fire extinguisher.

It's also ridiculously uncommon. Uncommon enough to not be something to worth worrying about. Otherwise, you'd be worrying so much as to never put anything flammable of any kind inside your living space. No gas/propane appliances of any kind, no lithium ion batteries of any kind, no flammable materials of any kind.

Heck, if your i3 is the version with the range extender, the REx is by far the most flammable-prone vehicle component in your garage.

The big thing about EV battery fires is that they start slow, then flare up and burn hot and long. Liquid fuel flares up quick, burns out quick.

And EV fires, because the battery pack is at the bottom of the vehicle, are best extinguished by water spraying *UP* at it from underneath. Some fire departments now have "EV spray sleds" - a sled they slide under a burning EV that sprays the water directly up at the battery. Because in a thermal runaway event, you're not trying to put out the flames, you're cooling the battery so that it stops the runaway. (While spraying water or foam at the top of the vehicle to stop the flames that occur due to combustable materials above the battery pack catching fire, like upholstery._)

 

[ndmiller]

We had a house fire years ago, family of four, bedrooms on second floor, lightning hit the house. The only thing that matters is getting out. Anything else is just asking for someone to be injured or killed either left behind or in the process of doing something but getting out.

Between the lightning strike and the exit was 2-3 minutes to call 911 on the way to grabing the kids get downstairs and run outside. The 2nd floor of the entire house was completely engulfed 5-10 minutes after we exited. Had we done anything else we wouldn't have made it to the stairs to get downstairs and outside.

 

[WSea]

Do you have a heat detector in the garage? Code requires them now and hard wired/interconnected so house alarms go off too

 

[Runs_4_beer]

Thanks all, I appreciate the conversation. I think you all confirmed what I was thinking, this little extinguisher isn't going to do anything. We don't have a smoke detector or heat sensor right now, but will get one ASAP.

 

[W1SE]

I think the biggest thing to remember is prevent and prepare but at the end of the day, EV fires are so extremely rare sitting ideal in a garage so if you are prepared then you can rest easier.

Luckily rivian shows to be quite nice compared to the bolt. I have never heard of a newer model EV fire that starts at the battery while in a garage (besides bolt) they usually start from the charger or the connection on the car.

I could be wrong, and this forum will help me if I am.

 

[Eeyore]

What safety measures to you take with your EV's?

Insurance with high coverage limits. Also, my T won't fit in my garage, so it charges in the driveway. The wife's ID4 charges in the garage, but only on 120 VAC. No Fire Extinguisher is going to put out a lithium battery fire.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Extinguishers are good for small fires but more importantly they are to protect individuals from fire to give themselves a chance to escape.

In the Army, we had only one halon extinguisher in our Hueys. Never was it to be used to put out an aircraft fire. Heck, that tiny bottle wasn’t going to put out several hundred gallons of JP8 anyways. But it could operate long enough to help me extract a pilot or two if we had an incident.

Car fires are relatively rare. EV car fires are even more rare. It’s not likely to happen to you but you are more likely to be in a position to help someone else get out of their vehicle alive if you have an extinguisher. If it does happen to you, it can let you get yourself or passengers out safely or it can be useful to prevent a fire from spreading.

If you have a fire from thermal runaway, might as well pop some marshmallows and make s'mores. That fire isn’t going out until it’s ready.

I like the idea of a heat sensor or smoke detector in the garage. Kinda surprised they weren’t required in my fairly new home in Colorado.

 

[docwhiz]

I agree with everything else in this thread. You’re not going to stop an EV battery fire. Or a sizeable gasoline fire.

Invest in alarms, warning systems, and escape plans. You should have these regardless of the type of car in your garage.

To take it a step further you could remove things from your garage that might be a source of combustion like gasoline for garden tools or a gas water heater.

No propane in the garage... What were they thinking?
Both my garages have sprinkler systems. Not cheap but fire department required. Don't know how effective they would be but the early warning alarm is definitely a plus.

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