Gen 2 Dual Max, missing 11kWh?

[dcmackintosh]

Picked up our Gen 2 R1S Dual Max with 20" A/S tires three days ago, loving most things about it so far! I had driven a '23 R1T Dual Large Performance for several hundred miles previously, and we originally ordered a Dual Large, but then I found out that the Large battery had been smallifiied for Gen 2. This is our fourth EV, and we were hoping for a solid 300+ mile range from the advertised 141kWh useable battery.

Battery capacities are given here, but have apparently not been updated for the Gen 2 vehicles.
https://rivian.com/support/article/what-is-the-usable-kwh-capacity-of-your-battery-packs

Here's the data from my first three days of driving. Moderate temps, 70-90 deg F. Probably 2/3 highway miles. Bold values are calculated.

The SOC, miles, and kWh used are reported by the car trip display. The mi/kWh seams pretty reasonable, better than I expected for this car (no worse than our Audi e-tron SUV). The theoretical 100-0% range has averaged about 300 (the EPA combined is 380 for this car), a bit less than I was expecting, but I do drive 75-80mph on the highway. The average calculated battery capacity is around 130kWh. Is this what others are seeing? Are there that many other losses, not accounted for by the trip display?

Also, I have to say that it's inexcusable that Rivian never gives you an actual miles remaining (or am I missing something?). When I got to 10% SOC this displays say that I can still go 39 miles, when based on all of my previous driving, it would be 30 at best. Worse if I was going uphill, of course. None of our previous cars, or several other EVs I've driven, don't give you an estimate range based on your recent driving.

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[usulio]

I would guess the discrepancy between your calculated battery capacity of ~130 and your actual usuable capacity of 141 is due to other usage of the battery - heating/cooling, vampire drain, etc. Rivian does weird calculations under the hood that I don't think are fully understood.

For example, let's say you drive 30 miles using 12 kWh, but your car also lost 2 kwH overnight for a total of 14. Rivian may say your efficiency is 2.5 mi/kWh and that you used 12 kWh, which is all pretty much true. You see a loss of 10% battery, which is true. You estimate a range of 300 miles for 100% battery, which is kind of true kind of not. You estimate a total usable capacity of 120 kWh, which is not true.

 

[Davethadog]

Damn, that’s essentially the same effiency and range as my gen 1 dual large.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

The highway driving kills the range esp if your driving over 65-70. The usable capacity should be close to 142 kwh for max pack when new. Now, that doesn't mean you will be able to pull all of that out for the powertrain. As was mentioned accessories, thermal management, etc all take some energy as well.

The 380 mi range is really under ideal conditions. You would need to average close to 2.7mi per kwh in order to get the EPA rated range.

EPA range on my quad large is 328 however I have 131 kwh usable so I would need to average 2.5mi per kwh in order to achieve the full EPA range. Not happening as I drive the same speeds as OP on the highway. If I drive slower and in conserve mode (say average 55 mph) than I can get 2.6 mi per kwh in mild temps...that's certainly not the norm though.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[beatle]

What's confounding is not the truck failing to meet its range estimate, but the calculated kwh of the battery. It's fair for a vehicle to use more energy than forecast, but on a 141kwh battery he should still be able to get 331 miles of range when averaging 2.35mi/kwh. I think this is OP's beef, not simply getting the rated range.

Here's a similar calculation to OP's on a drive I took in my '23 PDM max on OEM 20ATs that I pulled from ElectraFi:

Yes, I didn't get anywhere near my rated range either, but I had a few stints cruising at 78mph and there were a lot of elevation changes. I did, however, calculate the battery to be at 142.16 kwh based on that consumption, and ElectraFi shows the battery as being 142.7kwh (not sure how it gets this number). This is also with basically zero vampire drain since I pulled the truck off the mobile connector during a charge and drove off a few minutes later.

 

[HaveBlue]

I can't really figure out what he's posting or asking but I can say that he can configure the battery display on the driver screen to show both percentage and range remaining. No EPA range estimates are performed at 75-80mph.

 

[inconceivable]

There’s a fairly straightforward way to check what the vehicle thinks the usable battery capacity is. This info is available on rivian’s API. If you sign up for a service like electrafi, it will show you this data. Pretty there is a free trial if you’re interested.

FYI I’m not affiliated with them at all. I use them and this came up recently on another thread.

 

[beatle]

FWIW, this is the display at the top of ElectraFi that shows the battery capacity:

There is a free 2 week trial, but you get another 2 weeks if you use someone's referral link.

 

[dcmackintosh]

I can't really figure out what he's posting or asking but I can say that he can configure the battery display on the driver screen to show both percentage and range remaining. No EPA range estimates are performed at 75-80mph.

I just found where to add the %SOC to the drivers display, using the Units settings, thanks. Every other EV I've owned, or driven, shows (or has the option to show) a dynamic range remaining, based on a calculation using recent consumption. I think that always using the EPA estimate, instead of actual available data, is a significant oversight.

 

[HaveBlue]

Definitely the numbers don't always inspire confidence but I've also never been stranded. I usually end up at the destination with a bit more range than estimated. My ice cars also always give the same range after filling up. I think that after doing some long trips I just got a feeling for how far I can go. Range anxiety has really become a non issue for me. I also have a Tesla adapter though.

 

[beatle]

I think that always using the EPA estimate, instead of actual available data, is a significant oversight.

To be fair, none of the in vehicle estimates are really that great. No vehicle knows where you're going to be next or how fast you'll be driving, so remaining range on the guess-o-meter can vary wildly. The navigation is pretty good though at accounting for the trip's variables such as average speed and elevation changes, so using that to predict remaining range at your destination will give you a more accurate estimate than subtracting your trip's miles remaining from your estimated range in miles.

To that end, I wish the navigation would provide me an arrival estimate in percentage remaining instead of miles.

 

[dcmackintosh]

Here's an update after my first nine days with the R1S Dual Max, and almost 1k miles. After each day, I recorded the miles and kWh used as reported by the trip meter, and the SOC (I've been charging to 80% at home). My average calculated mi/kWh was 2.29, giving me an average calculated 100-0% range of 301 miles (21% lower than the EPA estimate of 380 miles with the 20" AS tires).

Although the battery is supposed to be 141kWh useable, dividing kWh used by dSOC indicates that I would only be provided about 131kWh while driving. When I've remembered to log the kWh added at the end of the charging session, it's showing another almost 10% being used, on average. I'm not sure what all of those losses are.

If I wanted to achieve the EPA estimate of 380 miles, with 131kWh available at 100% SOC, I would need to average 2.9mi/kWh. That would require some serious hypermiling, I expect. It wouldn't be a big deal, if there was an option to display a dynamic range remaining, like other EVs do.

At least 300 is a nice round number, I can always multiply the current %SOC indicated by 3, to get a more realistic range remaining during my drives.

 

[beatle]

Just out of curiosity, when you go to the settings app and then the About menu, does your truck show that it is a "dual max?"

Your profile says you have a 2025 R1S dual large.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I just found where to add the %SOC to the drivers display, using the Units settings, thanks. Every other EV I've owned, or driven, shows (or has the option to show) a dynamic range remaining, based on a calculation using recent consumption. I think that always using the EPA estimate, instead of actual available data, is a significant oversight.

Rivian will show dynamic range, but only if you are beating the EPA rating. I don't know why they refuse to let it match realistic consumption numbers when it's under. But it's been like that since the beginning. At least the range remaining at destination for navigation makes an attempt at this, but the number given is still the "wrong" range.

I believe the range number otherwise incorporates battery health measurements into it as well. It's just that no-one is seeing much degradation in actual capacity yet, so hasn't been well reported.

 

[dcmackintosh]

Just out of curiosity, when you go to the settings app and then the About menu, does your truck show that it is a "dual max?"

Your profile says you have a 2025 R1S dual large.

Yes, Dual Max. When I joined, we had ordered a Dual Large. Then I figured out the Gen 2 Large was only 109kWh (maybe 100 or less, in actual use), so we cancelled that and ordered the Dual Max. Unfortunately, we lost both our $500 deposit, and the $750 referral we had entered with the first order. I'm not seeing where to change this in my profile, but I should be able to find it.

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