Off road BEV choices

[COdogman]

Yes - this is the holy grail. A mid sized electric truck built by Toyota. It is SUCH A BUMMER that Toyota dragged their feet on EVs.

BUT - we may be seeing the reason why. Toyota is a conservative company and they may have just decided that waiting until they have a more bullet proof supply chain and properly priced components was the way to go. In ten years we'll look back and maybe it will make more sense.

Regardless - If FORD or Toyota can put out a mid sized electric pick up I'll be a day one reservation holder.

Also - Nissa was early with the LEAF - Would have been cool if they built an electric Frontier instead of that mild gas refresh. That's a solid truck that doesn't get much love.

Agree on all points.

Toyota's conservative approach is frustrating, but I think you are correct. They are just stalling until they know they can do it without interruption. Except I don't understand their odd interest in hydrogen vehicles either LOL. Toyota produces more vehicles per year per employee than any other manufacturer. As of a couple years ago they produced 9 million vehicles with 340,000 employees while VW produced 10 million with 600,000 employees. That is why they are so profitable. They will probably never change.

I agree on Nissan too. They missed an opportunity to jump ahead of the others. I would buy a Ranger EV too if they were first.

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[ironpig]

Agree on all points.

Toyota's conservative approach is frustrating, but I think you are correct. They are just stalling until they know they can do it without interruption. Except I don't understand their odd interest in hydrogen vehicles either LOL. Toyota produces more vehicles per year per employee than any other manufacturer. As of a couple years ago they produced 9 million vehicles with 340,000 employees while VW produced 10 million with 600,000 employees. That is why they are so profitable. They will probably never change.

I agree on Nissan too. They missed an opportunity to jump ahead of the others. I would buy a Ranger EV too if they were first.

Yeah I'll never understand the hydrogen thing. My neighbor has a Mirai. It's interesting, but he can only really charge it up one place which is near his work. And if you think EV chargers are bad, the hydrogen stations can be worse apparently. They have to pressurize the tanks before they fill you up and if you get there right after someone else sometimes you have to wait a half hour before it's even ready - and that's assuming they are full of hydrogen in the first place. And there are lots of times he has to call and have the station reset the machine etc. That infrastructure is never going to make it to prime time.

 

[Forager]

Jeep announced an unnamed BEV crossover “thing” for the EU market. Undisclosed if it will come to the states. It’s about the size of a Renegade.

 

[COdogman]

Yeah I'll never understand the hydrogen thing. My neighbor has a Mirai. It's interesting, but he can only really charge it up one place which is near his work. And if you think EV chargers are bad, the hydrogen stations can be worse apparently. They have to pressurize the tanks before they fill you up and if you get there right after someone else sometimes you have to wait a half hour before it's even ready - and that's assuming they are full of hydrogen in the first place. And there are lots of times he has to call and have the station reset the machine etc. That infrastructure is never going to make it to prime time.

That sounds even worse than I imagined

 

[emoore]

Yeah I'll never understand the hydrogen thing. My neighbor has a Mirai. It's interesting, but he can only really charge it up one place which is near his work. And if you think EV chargers are bad, the hydrogen stations can be worse apparently. They have to pressurize the tanks before they fill you up and if you get there right after someone else sometimes you have to wait a half hour before it's even ready - and that's assuming they are full of hydrogen in the first place. And there are lots of times he has to call and have the station reset the machine etc. That infrastructure is never going to make it to prime time.

That's because Toyota really really wants hydrogen instead of BEVs. The only reason they are getting into BEVs is to sell cars in China and Europe. If it wasn't for those regulations, Toyota would still be making only hybrids and trying to convince everyone to go to hydrogen. I've had multiple Toyota vehicles (still have 2) and I'm so disappointed in them that I won't buy another Toyota again.

 

[COdogman]

Fisker had announced this version of their Ocean last year, but it doesn't appear anywhere on their website and given his history of vaporware, I wouldn't expect it to ever be built. Cool idea though:
https://insideevs.com/news/409441/fisker-unveils-force-e-rescue-package-ocean/

 

[jeeden]

So I am coming at this from a slightly different point of view. I currently have a Ford Explorer which the design has long since stopped supporting true off road. I'm actually looking for the family vehicle/road trip vehicle first and then the off road capability. The explorer is getting tight for the family of 5, especially on the road trips/ski trips/backpacking trips, etc.

I can't think of an alternative right now no matter what price I'm willing to pay. There are no electric yukons, expeditions, tahoes, etc even announced and if they were they would be another two years down the road. That brings me to another point, has anyone else noticed how the auto industry has milked this thing for nearly 10 years now? In 2017 they all said "oh the EVs are coming!" in 2020 or so, then was the pandemic, and then supply chain issues, and then... and then.. and then. GM and so many others are now saying 2024, how likely is that? 2024 really means December 31st, 2024 and that can slip easily to late 2025 and then in reality be 2026.

 

[ironpig]

That's because Toyota really really wants hydrogen instead of BEVs. The only reason they are getting into BEVs is to sell cars in China and Europe. If it wasn't for those regulations, Toyota would still be making only hybrids and trying to convince everyone to go to hydrogen. I've had multiple Toyota vehicles (still have 2) and I'm so disappointed in them that I won't buy another Toyota again.

Same. I have a 1975 Land Cruiser, 2011 Prius and a 2015 4Runner. Safe to say we have always loved Toyotas. But they aren’t making anything I want at the moment. Once they make BEVs I’ll revisit. The 4Runner is going out the door IF we get a Rivian…

 

[SeaGeo]

The XC40?? Volvo's home page has this description. "our full electric compact SUV is designed for modern urban living" With 6.9 inches of ground clearance on the stat sheet, I don't see any way this falls into the off road capable category.

How the hell does the XC40 only have 6.9 inches of clearance? That's less than the ID.4.

 

[Dark-Fx]

So I am coming at this from a slightly different point of view. I currently have a Ford Explorer which the design has long since stopped supporting true off road. I'm actually looking for the family vehicle/road trip vehicle first and then the off road capability. The explorer is getting tight for the family of 5, especially on the road trips/ski trips/backpacking trips, etc.

I can't think of an alternative right now no matter what price I'm willing to pay. There are no electric yukons, expeditions, tahoes, etc even announced and if they were they would be another two years down the road. That brings me to another point, has anyone else noticed how the auto industry has milked this thing for nearly 10 years now? In 2017 they all said "oh the EVs are coming!" in 2020 or so, then was the pandemic, and then supply chain issues, and then... and then.. and then. GM and so many others are now saying 2024, how likely is that? 2024 really means December 31st, 2024 and that can slip easily to late 2025 and then in reality be 2026.

The auto industry is a big hulking behemoth. The fact that a startup like Rivian is even able to get trucks out the door after being publicly non-existent back then is nothing short of a miracle. And they are far from having full vertical integration. GM is the closest out of any of the legacy automakers.

 

[ironpig]

So I am coming at this from a slightly different point of view. I currently have a Ford Explorer which the design has long since stopped supporting true off road. I'm actually looking for the family vehicle/road trip vehicle first and then the off road capability. The explorer is getting tight for the family of 5, especially on the road trips/ski trips/backpacking trips, etc.

I can't think of an alternative right now no matter what price I'm willing to pay. There are no electric yukons, expeditions, tahoes, etc even announced and if they were they would be another two years down the road. That brings me to another point, has anyone else noticed how the auto industry has milked this thing for nearly 10 years now? In 2017 they all said "oh the EVs are coming!" in 2020 or so, then was the pandemic, and then supply chain issues, and then... and then.. and then. GM and so many others are now saying 2024, how likely is that? 2024 really means December 31st, 2024 and that can slip easily to late 2025 and then in reality be 2026.

I think this is the only reason Rivian can survive. They are delivering 2 products without any real competition - if they can deliver them. The R1T is not as big as the F-150, has some premium cache, isn't a silly cyber truck and isn't an electric GMC Avalanche. So it will be unique for a while. The R1S seems to have no competition yet. I expect electric Escalades at some point, but it's definitely going to be a few years before competition for large road trip EV SUVs are around.

 

[koersontap]

I think this is the only reason Rivian can survive. They are delivering 2 products without any real competition - if they can deliver them. The R1T is not as big as the F-150, has some premium cache, isn't a silly cyber truck and isn't an electric GMC Avalanche. So it will be unique for a while. The R1S seems to have no competition yet. I expect electric Escalades at some point, but it's definitely going to be a few years before competition for large road trip EV SUVs are around.

I started looking around myself. I'm in the camp that I just want a BEV with 3 rows. And there's zilch out there. Lincoln is talking having 2 models - in 2026. Kia will likely have their 3-row EV by the end of next year? Maybe? I could always jump on the ID Buzz wagon. But that's it as far as I've been able to tell.

 

[jeeden]

Too add to it, even if I wanted to go get an ICE Tahoe or Expedition or something, it is PAIN because with the shortages and the escalation of price for those vehicles the last few years (even before the pandemic) you are only about 20k away from the R1S. That is what made the R1S such a no brainer, it was practically even money for an Expedition.

The more I think about it the more I think I'm just going to wind up bending over and taking it this summer if/when my R1S is ready. It will be tough to tell people how awesome it is without the "but it is a fortune." Only good thing is that the used car market is so hot that our current explorer has probably appreciated the same amount for resale

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

How the hell does the XC40 only have 6.9 inches of clearance? That's less than the ID.4.

Seriously, and if you're going by what I tell my wife 6.9" looks like then I don't know how its even street legal!

 

[Forager]

How the hell does the XC40 only have 6.9 inches of clearance? That's less than the ID.4.

Its a limitation of the CMA platform. The ICE and PHEV XC40 has 8.1”, but with the BEV the battery back is placed lower, consuming that 1.5” (I read 6.7” on their website).

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