Musk's twitter problem a boon for Rivian sales? [***NO POLITICS***]

Dark-Fx

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Well.. Tesla made more profit on their limited cars sold (about a 1-1.2 million) compared to the total Toyota umbrella at many multiples of vehicles sold. Tesla margins are incredible. Go look at the current price to earning ratios nearing some top heavy hitter companies that have been around for many decades. You may not agree with it, but they are a financially robust company with little to no debt, a great deal of valuable patents, and even more stored user data. Maybe that’s why they’re worth what they’re worth. I’m not a fan when people who just don’t like companies and complain about valuations without actually looking into financials.
Tesla won't be able to maintain their margins forever. They are taking advantage of their consumer because of the industry wide supply issues that they just happen to be in an advantageous position for right now. It won't be true forever.

 

Prime

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Tesla won't be able to maintain their margins forever. They are taking advantage of their consumer because of the industry wide supply issues that they just happen to be in an advantageous position for right now. It won't be true forever.
If I could see into the future I wouldn’t be working anymore lol. Yea the margins will likely shrink, already happening in china with Tesla cutting prices. Though, the fact of the matter is the way they produce cars are for large margins. No one else is doing that yet. Look at the (basic) interior of a model Y or even of the S and compare it to the counterpart models like Mach E, Etron, or for the S compare the Lucid or Mercedes EQS. Or let’s look into the future a little, the cybertruck vs rivian. Tesla body panels are simple, interior and exterior, making production and assembly simpler. Making margins better. Add to the fact that the new factories rely more heavily on automation than the existing heavy hitter auto companies. Again better margins due to less personnel costs. I’m not saying the company is amazing or perfect, I’m purely talking based on numbers and the numbers are likely going to stay stronger than the competition for a while. My 2 cents.
 

Tahoe Man

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Well.. Tesla made more profit on their limited cars sold (about a 1-1.2 million) compared to the total Toyota umbrella at many multiples of vehicles sold. Tesla margins are incredible. Go look at the current price to earning ratios nearing some top heavy hitter companies that have been around for many decades. You may not agree with it, but they are a financially robust company with little to no debt, a great deal of valuable patents, and even more stored user data. Maybe that’s why they’re worth what they’re worth. I’m not a fan when people who just don’t like companies and complain about valuations without actually looking into financials.
Umm, yeah, so the best of the best financial analyst can't predict worth crap either. I remember when the financial analyst said it would declare BK. Then they said TSLA was worth well over a $Trillion when it peaked, where are those great minds now when it's cut in almost half....What's their crystal ball say....

I could state reasons why TSLA will go to $75B or why it could go to $1.5T. Valuations are based on sediment and momentum. Again, the EV mania is over and TSLA is reflecting that along with RIVN and all the other EV issues.
 

Prime

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Umm, yeah, so the best of the best financial analyst can't predict worth crap either. I remember when the financial analyst said it would declare BK. Then they said TSLA was worth well over a $Trillion when it peaked, where are those great minds now when it's cut in almost half....What's their crystal ball say....

I could state reasons why TSLA will go to $75B or why it could go to $1.5T. Valuations are based on sediment and momentum. Again, the EV mania is over and TSLA is reflecting that along with RIVN and all the other EV issues.
Well the whole market is down if you’re following. Not just Tesla. How’s Rivian doing since peak? Only auto up right now is Polestar. I don’t invest emotionally I do it by the numbers. To each his own.
 

Dark-Fx

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Well the whole market is down if you’re following. Not just Tesla. How’s Rivian doing since peak? Only auto up right now is Polestar. I don’t invest emotionally I do it by the numbers. To each his own.
I bought polestar when it was still GGPI. I'm currently down 25%. I would have averaged down when it was in the 3's but I wasn't paying attention to the market then.
 


Donald Stanfield

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No doubt that Tesla will continue to sell every vehicle it can make for the next few years. That's the state of the supply chain, true of EVERY SINGLE ev maker out there. The reality is that there haven't been good alternatives to Tesla, but those days are over. Elon has positioned himself as the face of Tesla, far more so than Steve Jobs ever did with Apple for example. If he keeps it up he will be a fully politicized figure--I'm not even sure he can stop that from happening at this point--and in turn so will Tesla. Imagine Ford hiring AOC to sell a bunch of F-150s.

Can't argue with the success that he's had with Tesla, but the people who work for/with him report big changes in the man over the last 2-3 years. It is very well known in the tech world that morale at Tesla is terrible. It calmed down a bit when the stock was sky-high, but it has been VERY easy for competitors to poach top talent and many employees blame Elon for the stock tanking. We'll see it at Twitter now too. Even in this terrible tech job market, most of the good engineers who aren't tied down by an H1-B visa bailed.
There’s some fair points in here and some stuff I don’t necessarily agree with. I will admit that Elon is spending too much time listening to his own press and he’s self aggrandizing too much for his own good. Whether or not that’s going to hurt the Tesla bottom line remains to be seen.

The competition is true, and I am willing to bet some of these reports are funded by big auto makers or the UAW. We’ve seen it here already with articles about Rivian written in a not so favorable light funded by the dealers association and by UAW union. Of course they are going to smear the people who might hurt their bottom line.

Likewise for all the left leaning sources posting about how bad Elon is getting to the point of absurdity claiming that his tweets are even literally dangerous. You have to take that stuff with a grain of salt.

Talent had always been poached between cutting edge companies and new players to the EV game really had only one place to poach from because only Tesla was really doing what they wanted to at any scale. This isn’t at all surprising when so many legacy automakers are moving into the EV sphere.

It’s also not at all surprising that Twitter had the mass exodus after Elon took over. We all know, or at least should know, Twitter was a terrible business. It was running itself into the ground. When you have a failing team people will get entitled and entrenched in the habits that caused the overall failing team and many of these employees will not want to toe the line to start winning.

It’s possible to ruin a talented player by not adequately supervising them. These people begin to expect that they get to slack off or underperform. Some will realize it and change but many will just leave. The previous management of Twitter is guilty of doing this and that makes a huge turnover inevitable. When a business is losing money you really do need to change to survive.

Now the thing I agree with you on is all the competition might hurt Elon’s bottom line. He’s going to have to put up or shut up on the promised features like full self driving, the roadster and cybertruck. I don’t think this has much to do with Elon personally though, more with the market
 

Prime

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I bought polestar when it was still GGPI. I'm currently down 25%. I would have averaged down when it was in the 3's but I wasn't paying attention to the market then.
Fair and not surprising considering the market, 25% down is actually pretty good, I have only recently started following Polestar and it’s up about 100% in a month, but to be fair looking at the big picture yes, it’s down.

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Tahoe Man

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Well the whole market is down if you’re following. Not just Tesla. How’s Rivian doing since peak? Only auto up right now is Polestar. I don’t invest emotionally I do it by the numbers. To each his own.
Yeah, the market is down, but that's after the fed is doing their thingy. Again, where were the great minds a year ago when Mr Market was stretching to 4800, they were all saying it's a great time to buy based on earning, blah blah blah.

Old man Warren says buy when there is fear and sell when there is greed....sound investing IMO...it was one reason why I didn't buy the BS here as everyone was saying RIVN is a great buy as it descending into the abyss.
 

Dark-Fx

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Yeah, the market is down, but that's after the fed is doing their thingy. Again, where were the great minds a year ago when Mr Market was stretching to 4800, they were all saying it's a great time to buy based on earning, blah blah blah.

Old man Warren says buy when there is fear and sell when there is greed....sound investing IMO...it was one reason why I didn't buy the BS here as everyone was saying RIVN is a great buy as it descending into the abyss.
In one of those threads a long time ago, I said I expected RIVN to bottom out around 25 and it wasn't well met. Guess I didn't anticipate the whole market being as down as it was. Let's go with $15 for the bottom this time.
 

Tahoe Man

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In one of those threads a long time ago, I said I expected RIVN to bottom out around 25 and it wasn't well met. Guess I didn't anticipate the whole market being as down as it was. Let's go with $15 for the bottom this time.
Yeah, generally you'll get flamed if you're against the mania crowds. They're trying to convince themselves they made a sound investment. Bears will have their reasons. I guess that's what makes a market. IMO, financials don't matter...RIVN was suppose to be the next TSLA....that's why investing into an index fund usually will outperform financial analyst investing especially over the long term.
 


Mathme

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Tesla has been successful because they've been the only game in town. Now that there's competition and inherent choice, I think people will look elsewhere for an Electric car.

Sure, Tesla has a great charging network but people will not put up with shoddy build quality and an "I don't care about customers" approach to service when there are other options out there.
 

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I suspect it's easier to make incremental build quality and customer service improvements than it is to build out a nationwide infrastructure network.
 

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Mr. Musk has gone off the deep end lately. His constant lust for attention is puzzling. Those that have close ties to Elon claim that the eccentric genius has morphed in the last 2-3 years. He is the face of Tesla and is turning off many potential Tesla buyers.

The Tesla Supercharging network is a huge competitive advantage for the company. Super high reliability as well. Simply pull up and plug in. No cards, PIN numbers, etc.
 

 
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