My Opinion on Max Pack Offering

[SANZC02]

I see what your saying now... but hear me out. Lets forget about the EPA range and just focus on the energy. The EPA number usually are lower real world. Based on the usable capacity the max has a 9.2% advantage over large. While you would in theory stay in the higher charging rates longer you also have to put more energy into the pack which takes longer. I think see would have to see on this.

Also, on the degradation two percent is average... it can vary a bit though. EPA range is not a way i like to quantify degradation. Degradation is measured by the amount of energy that can be stored/extracted from the pack. Specifically its measured by usable capacity when new vs usable capacity at time of measurement/testing. So if i say I have 2% degradation on a pack. That has 200 kwh usable that means i have lost 4kwh of capacity.

The range and driving scenarios will vary. There may be minor differences but nothing sticks out at me to say its worth a $10,000 upgrade other than to say i can go 400mi on a charge... which is cool...but like i said in the video 10k will cover quite a few public charges... from 20-70% 320 times assuming.a cost of $0.50 per kwh.

My last response here as we both clearly have different perspectives.

I just need you to clarify why because it is a larger pack on a trip why I need to add more kWs? I am expecting the efficiency to be similar between the 2 packs. I do not think there will be enough weight difference to make the max pack less efficient. Now I have traveled 150 miles, let's say I average 2.2 miles per kW, both vehicles will need to add back 68 kWs. If I stay under 70% putting that in the max pack and need to go to 80% on the large pack is the max pack not ending faster?

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[Electrified Outdoors]

My last response here as we both clearly have different perspectives.

I just need you to clarify why because it is a larger pack on a trip why I need to add more kWs? I am expecting the efficiency to be similar between the 2 packs. I do not think there will be enough weight difference to make the max pack less efficient. Now I have traveled 150 miles, let's say I average 2.2 miles per kW, both vehicles will need to add back 68 kWs. If I stay under 70% putting that in the max pack and need to go to 80% on the large pack is the max pack not ending faster?

Its fine... i enjoy discussing. Ok sure we can talk about a set amount of charging energy. That's something we would have to test of course. It might possibly be a couple of minutes faster in that scenario. If the charging curve is similar how much faster do you think it will be? I don't think its going to be significant and i don't think that scenario will present itself very often for me.

Again, its a question only you can answer. If its five minutes and you do it once a month. Is it worth 10k to save 1 hour on charging over the course of a year? That's up to you and it matters zero what i think.

My video is aimed at someone who is new to Rivian and maybe to EVs all together. Its not meant to sway someone its meant to get them to think about if its really worth it. That will definitely be subjective.

Like i said there are edge cases but i don't see how its worth it. If you do by all means go for it. If you do, stop in Maryland and we can do some testing and comparison on max pack DM vs Quad Large ?

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Well i tried ABRP. Its in beta so accuracy not guaranteed. It uses a reference consumption of 2.68 mi per kwh @ 65mph for both DM max and DMP Large.

It does appear, when set for quickest arrival you spend significantly less time charging. I did a 400 mile trip and a 900 mile trip.

On the 400 mile trip charging time was halved 15m vs 30m. On the longer trip it was 1h 35m for max and 2hr 29m for large.

There are a lot of variables here like speed of chargers, weather, etc. It would appear that it does cut down on charging time. I do question weather folks will actually stay in the car that long.... but i think that is subjective.

Max Pack

Large Pack

Large Pack

Max Pack

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Here is a worst case. Towing with a ref consumption of 1mi per kwh @65 mph

If this is correct, it might be a better choice if you tow long distance frequently. 8 stops for max vs 12 stops for large.

Max Pack

Large Pack

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I have a support request in to ABRP to confirm if they are using a 149kwh or 180kwh for max pack.

If it is indeed a 149kwh pack and what ABRP says is accurate then max pack may be a more viable choice then i initially though. When I do the math it appears ABRP is using the correct capacity for max pack. 2.68 x 142 = 380 and 2.68 x 149 = 399.

would love to get a max pack owner to do some testing with me.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

And ABRP just confirmed its 180kwh in their system.

 

[Hawkjody]

I do appreciate the effort and opinion making an economic argument against the Max Pack battery - In my mind anyone buying a 90k car sould not really care about another 10k. If the budget is that tight a Rivian is a poor financial decision allround. (Want not need ) Clearly a city driver daily commuter who is charging at home dose not need the extra range. In addition if/when the the Tesal superchargers open up road tripping will be much less anxiety provoking and far easier.

My use case is traveling in remote areas of the wilderness in the CAlifornia eastern and western Sierra Nevada, southern Utah, Arizona and Colorado - the last few drops of juice could be the difference from getting stuck in White Pocket or other remote wilderness areas or not.

Reservation Date 5/5/22; Order Confirmation Date 10/4/22 R1S - Limestone, dual motor performance, Ocean Coast/Dark Wood, All Terrain and MAX PACK - Now i continue to wait.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

I do appreciate the effort and opinion making an economic argument against the Max Pack battery - In my mind anyone buying a 90k car sould not really care about another 10k. If the budget is that tight a Rivian is a poor financial decision allround. (Want not need ) Clearly a city driver daily commuter who is charging at home dose not need the extra range. In addition if/when the the Tesal superchargers open up road tripping will be much less anxiety provoking and far easier.

My use case is traveling in remote areas of the wilderness in the CAlifornia eastern and western Sierra Nevada, southern Utah, Arizona and Colorado - the last few drops of juice could be the difference from getting stuck in White Pocket or other remote wilderness areas or not.

Reservation Date 5/5/22; Order Confirmation Date 10/4/22 R1S - Limestone, dual motor performance, Ocean Coast/Dark Wood, All Terrain and MAX PACK - Now i continue to wait.

That's fair. It sounds like your going to enjoy your R1S so im excited for you. If im wrong about max pack i have no problem admitting it.

I actually want to do some road trip and tow testing with a max pack. I maintain my opinion but im keeping an open mind too.

 

[zefram47]

not worth it...my opinion.

Had it actually been the originally claimed 180 kWh, it absolutely would've been worth it to me. Now...I'm thrilled I opted to dump it for a Large pack when they made us choose back in December. An extra 14 kWh gross is laughable for $10k over the Large pack, unless it miraculously charges significantly faster...but it'll likely charge worse than the Large pack.

 

[Supratachophobia]

And ABRP just confirmed its 180kwh in their system.

Well we all know that's junk. They have really bad information.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

You know the funny thing about this is that the Chevy Bolt EV went through a similar chemistry change IIRC. Same pack from LG chem but they were able to get 66 kwh out of it vs the old chemistry of the original which was 60 kwh. That is a 9.1% increase. If the numbers for max pack are correct Max is a 9.4% bump over Large. Both numbers are gross...usable is a couple tenths less.

I agree the 180kwh pack would have been an easier sell.

 

[Dark-Fx]

And ABRP just confirmed its 180kwh in their system.

And they are wrong.

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

And they are wrong.

Right, I am pointing that out because that means the ABRP calcs I posted earlier are based on false info.

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