New Tire Recs - Analysis Paralysis

[lslick23]

Nokian Outpost.

28k miles on mine, quiet, still 60%+ treadlife

What size tire are you running?

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[TXR1S]

What size tire are you running?

LT285/65R20

Love the tiny bit of extra width and height

 

[2kwik4u]

Continental is another to consider. People seem to like them.

This is the first time I've seen this tire on a Rivian. Are these yours? How do you like them? I had the Terrain Contact AT's on my Sierra and really really liked them. They were smooth, quite, and balanced easily. I'm torn on them because I want to preserve the 3PMS rating (because I live in Buffalo southtowns), but have used them in the past and had a great experience with them.

Not quite as aggressive of a look to them, but better than a regular "all season" tire I think. These were a 275/55/20, but the Sierra had much larger wheel openings in the body, so they looked tiny on there. They do make 275/65/20 that matches the OEM Pirelli AT's

I've been a fan of Continental tires for a very long time. Run the DWS06's on several cars, and then have run several other models on my wifes cars. Heck, even have Continentals on my bicycle. really curious to see what the Rivian owners with these tires think about them.

 

[2kwik4u]

Reducing unspring mass of the wheels and tires can have significant benefits regardless of the overall weight of the vehicle.

Yea, I get the engineering behind it. In particular giving the vehicles dampers more control authority over suspension movement, as well as the reduction of rotational inertia. Both of those should result in better accel/decel, as well as improved ride characteristics.

Every time I've added light wheels/tires in the past it's been on sub 3k lb vehicles (Mazda RX7, BMW 318i, etc) where I was making the change for acceleration/deceleration reasons, and was actively autocrossing the vehicle. I just don't have much experience on something that weighs twice as much, and is primarily used for daily driving and off-roading. Really more of my wondering out loud if the juice is worth the squeeze in this application.

 

[SamDoe1]

Had the same conundrum and went with the 33" Goodyear tires, could not be happier. The smaller tire size is barely noticeable and I don't off road so the loss of ground clearance is irrelevant to me. I just wanted something that had good traction in snow/ice (I'm in MN), got good efficiency, and didn't scream at me while driving at any speed.

To add to that the GY tires were CONSIDERABLY cheaper than any of the 34" tire options and it cemented the deal. No regrets and would buy them again...though I haven't had a chance to try them in snow yet so TBD on that front.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I've read most of the threads here and on reddit. Now I have analysis paralysis.

Here are the details.

20" AT - Stock Pirelli - The noise is driving me nuts on the highway.
Wants: Less Noise AND ATs, 3PMS, Little to no range loss preferred.

I've been considering:

Nokian Outpost nAT
Michelin Defender LTX Platinum (Not 3PMS)
Toyo Tire Open Country A/T III EV

Is there a clear winner or option I'm not considering?

Thank you for the help!

Tire hum and AT or MT go hand-in-hand. The sound is often described as loud but it's really not volume/intensity. It's pitch. And different people have different sensitivity to different frequencies/pitches. You know that stretch of road somewhere that play a tune when cars driver over it? It's the gaps they cut into the road that is causing it. Harmonics. Different tread patterns produce different harmonics (gaps in the tread blocks). Tire manufactures try offsetting the repeating patterns to try to cancel out the harmonics as much as they can (like how active noise canceling headphones work). There are other tricks tire manufacturers use, like foam inserts.

Which tire is right for you depends on one thing: what do you want? There are tons of tire threads already. You need to ask yourself what attributes are more important to you first. That will be the defining criteria for you to hone in on your final choice.

If you want ATs with similar efficiency as factory ATs, the SL Toyo OC AT3 EV is the closest thing.

If you don't want/need ATs there's the AS Michelin Defender LTX MS2 that many in the forum are running and have good things to say. There's also the General Grabber HST60 some are running. These AS tires aren't much to look at, but they provide better smoothness, quietness and efficiency than ATs.

Whether AS or AT, downsizing to 275/60 will yield some efficiency gains over the 275/65.

Nokian makes good tires, but the nAT is heavier than the stock 275/65 ATs. I personally would not consider anything heavier than the nAT.

I would not even consider the Defender LTX Platinum. That is one heavy ass tire at just over 60 lbs. You WILL feel it.

If your idea of off-roading is nothing more than the occasional foray on a tame dirt path, want AT looks but also efficiency... Downsize to 275/60 and get the Goodyear Territory AT RIV. It's under $300 each. Developed with Rivian. And there is already a software config for it. So no second guessing if your range estimates are within ballpark.

 

[HaveBlue]

This is the first time I've seen this tire on a Rivian. Are these yours? How do you like them? I had the Terrain Contact AT's on my Sierra and really really liked them. They were smooth, quite, and balanced easily. I'm torn on them because I want to preserve the 3PMS rating (because I live in Buffalo southtowns), but have used them in the past and had a great experience with them.

Not quite as aggressive of a look to them, but better than a regular "all season" tire I think. These were a 275/55/20, but the Sierra had much larger wheel openings in the body, so they looked tiny on there. They do make 275/65/20 that matches the OEM Pirelli AT's

I've been a fan of Continental tires for a very long time. Run the DWS06's on several cars, and then have run several other models on my wifes cars. Heck, even have Continentals on my bicycle. really curious to see what the Rivian owners with these tires think about them.

I don't have those. Just collecting samples for me and everyone else. The most quiet and smooth AT I've had is the Michelin LTX A/T. Lots of miles on them and they are still quiet today.

GY Wrangler AT have also been pretty quiet and ok off-road but that was a long time ago and they likely have improved them even more.

 

[2kwik4u]

I personally would not even consider the Defender LTX Platinum. That is one heavy ass tire at just over 60 lbs. You WILL feel it.

I've started putting together a weight analysis on these wheel/tire packages. The Michelins and the Continentals are by far the heaviest around. but the Nokians are up there as well.

I'm really leaning towards the Atomic wheels + Goodyear setup. More expensive to also buy wheels, but makes swapping them at home easier, and you get a little "savings" from the tires being less expensive.

 

[R1Thor]

I've started putting together a weight analysis on these wheel/tire packages. The Michelins and the Continentals are by far the heaviest around. but the Nokians are up there as well.

I'm really leaning towards the Atomic wheels + Goodyear setup. More expensive to also buy wheels, but makes swapping them at home easier, and you get a little "savings" from the tires being less expensive.

While I won't disabuse you of the effort to look at mass, it's not the ONLY metric.

I could probably name 15 of them, but the absolute biggest of which is rolling resistance. To which there is generally no (recorded and reported) data.

So, while you'll get a decent *idea* from the mass of each tire, it's only a part of the equation. There are verily heavier tires getting better efficiency than lighter tires just because of compound, siping, geometry, air incursion, etc. TO what degree, we can only speculate.

I keep offering that if anyone wants to pay me a full time salary and cover costs, I'll happily test every wheel+tire combination exhaustively and provide objective real-world data!

 

[2kwik4u]

While I won't disabuse you of the effort to look at mass, it's not the ONLY metric.

I could probably name 15 of them, but the absolute biggest of which is rolling resistance. To which there is generally no (recorded and reported) data.

So, while you'll get a decent *idea* from the mass of each tire, it's only a part of the equation. There are verily heavier tires getting better efficiency than lighter tires just because of compound, siping, geometry, air incursion, etc. TO what degree, we can only speculate.

I keep offering that if anyone wants to pay me a full time salary and cover costs, I'll happily test every wheel+tire combination exhaustively and provide objective real-world data!

Oh I agree and get it. There are a plethora of things to looks at beyond just mass. however, it should be a pretty good indicator of of several of the other things you mention though as mass is likely very closely linked to stiffness in this case, and stiffness will drive a lot of the other parameters like rolling resistance, deflection under load, ride quality, etc.

Also, it's damn near the only objective metric we have. Everything else is either shielded behind corporate "secret sauce" or largely subjective/anecdotal.

 

[HaveBlue]

You didn't list which tire model nor the load rating which makes a big difference in weight. Many of these come in the exact same size with one being a 115/116/119. All different weights. Additionally, the OEM tires have very little tread on them to make them light but they wear out quick. Shave one of the aftermarket ones down to the same tread depth and you'll have a fair comparison.

 

[2kwik4u]

You didn't list which tire model nor the load rating which makes a big difference in weight. Many of these come in the exact same size with one being a 115/116/119. All different weights. Additionally, the OEM tires have very little tread on them to make them light but they wear out quick. Shave one of the aftermarket ones down to the same tread depth and you'll have a fair comparison.

Let me get back to a PC and I'll post them. Have links to the tires just outside that screen shot.

You can't shave 10lbs of tread off a tire and still have it be usable. That variation is well with the noise of production tolerances.

 

[R1Thor]

Hi, I’m an engineer at Goodyear that helped design the Wrangler Territory AT for Rivian. I’m very pleased with how this tire performs and I’m partially biased, but I think they look great on my R1T. I’ve heard good things about the Atomic wheels too. For anyone not aware, there is a lot of good info and feedback in this thread… https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...y-at-275-60-20-factory-at-tires-saving.37522/

I totally understand the inside-baseball of R&D. I've been an R&D/Product Development Engineer for almost 2 full decades now across multiple industries with their own IP and secret squirrel analytics.

But you know what would REALLY REALLY help (and be completely awesome to everyone, especially us Rivian enthusiasts?!)?

When you're developing a tire (at least I know this of Michelin, because I've watched some of their test track efforts): you're comparing it to competitive tires.

RELEASE THOSE TEST DATA.

I think it'd go a lot farther for someone (talk to your PR/Marketing team if you can) could show up with some aggregated data demonstrating (in this case particularly) efficiency data across X,XXX miles *when compared to your competitors.*

Don't get me wrong, it's awesome you're here and evangelizing the awesomeness of your work and company. It doesn't go unnoticed. But I've also worked in enough different companies, where apparently EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. is the *best* company in its industry (and I do believe they genuinely believe that by whatever metrics they want to measure it by)... that seeing hard data is a lot more meaningful.

Also, feel free to send me a set of tires to test for you. I'll give some unbiased opinions and data, promise! (I need 5 tires, though--I have a full sized spare and do a 5-tire rotation --I'm earnestly joking, don't do that)

 

[B Digs]

I totally understand the inside-baseball of R&D. I've been an R&D/Product Development Engineer for almost 2 full decades now across multiple industries with their own IP and secret squirrel analytics.

But you know what would REALLY REALLY help (and be completely awesome to everyone, especially us Rivian enthusiasts?!)?

When you're developing a tire (at least I know this of Michelin, because I've watched some of their test track efforts): you're comparing it to competitive tires.

RELEASE THOSE TEST DATA.

I think it'd go a lot farther for someone (talk to your PR/Marketing team if you can) could show up with some aggregated data demonstrating (in this case particularly) efficiency data across X,XXX miles *when compared to your competitors.*

Don't get me wrong, it's awesome you're here and evangelizing the awesomeness of your work and company. It doesn't go unnoticed. But I've also worked in enough different companies, where apparently EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. is the *best* company in its industry (and I do believe they genuinely believe that by whatever metrics they want to measure it by)... that seeing hard data is a lot more meaningful.

Also, feel free to send me a set of tires to test for you. I'll give some unbiased opinions and data, promise! (I need 5 tires, though--I have a full sized spare and do a 5-tire rotation --I'm earnestly joking, don't do that)

Hi @R1Thor

I appreciate your passion for data! Unfortunately, I can't share specific test data due to confidentiality reasons. However, I assure you our tires undergo rigorous testing to ensure top performance.

Your feedback is valuable, and I'll pass it along to our PR/Marketing team. We appreciate your understanding and support.

 

[B Digs]

Just curious, is there a plan to release the same tire in 34"? I'd be a buyer

Hi @TTedP,

Goodyear is working on a number of new tire lines, but it's still TBD if the Wrangler Territory AT will be resized to 34".

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