PA Enacts separate EV Road Tax

[SRO]

I am not oaky with any new tax. Just sick of being taxed to death.

PA tax will be on the top of the Fed tax coming. By the time one adds up all the EV use tax, it will add $800~$1,000/yr for any EV.

For one thing, if the tax was based on the weight of the vehicle on the registration, that would make more sense than just a flat fee for any EVs.

The flat fee in PA and what's in the 3B currently going through congress takes no consideration for a light compact EVs vs heavy large EVs (e.g., Fiat 500e vs Escalade IQ). If the objective is to collect for road and highway use, then also acknowledge the impact of the vehicle weight.

Personally, I don't like how it's being implemented. By far the most simplest and most fair is to add the same equivalent Fed excise tax on DCFC rate, just as they do to a gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel. Those who uses it the most, pays the most.

I am not oaky with any new tax. Just sick of being taxed to death.

PA tax will be on the top of the Fed tax coming. By the time one adds up all the EV use tax, it will add $800~$1,000/yr for any EV.

For one thing, if the tax was based on the weight of the vehicle on the registration, that would make more sense than just a flat fee for any EVs.

The flat fee in PA and what's in the 3B currently going through congress takes no consideration for a light compact EVs vs heavy large EVs (e.g., Fiat 500e vs Escalade IQ). If the objective is to collect for road and highway use, then also acknowledge the impact of the vehicle weight.

Personally, I don't like how it's being implemented. By far the most simplest and most fair is to add the same equivalent Fed excise tax on DCFC rate, just as they do to a gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel. Those who uses it the most, pays the most.

As far as damage to the roads heavy cars or trucks are insignificant when compared to tractor trailer rigs. Go check with any DOT. Structural design of pavements are almost completely based on these rigs. On the other hand all cars and trucks do contribute to the need for additional travel lanes which are very expensive especially if right of way is needed. It is not simple at all to evaluate vehicle impacts to our highways. I think a new funding system is needed.

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[KBabione]

Personally, I don't like how it's being implemented. By far the most simplest and most fair is to add the same equivalent Fed excise tax on DCFC rate, just as they do to a gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel. Those who uses it the most, pays the most.

The problem with a tax on DCFC rates is that 90% of my driving is in PA and almost all of that power is supplied by my L2 home charger. I think I've used a fast charger in PA less than ten times in the two years we've had our R1S - usually on longer trips heading out of the state.

There's no easy answer to this issue so a flat rate that annoys pretty much everyone is probably the most reasonable outcome. Because PA allows two-year registrations (at 2x the one-year cost) I always renew for 2 years just to cut the administration effort. It looks like that will save me in 2025 because I won't have to renew until 2026 - unless someone catches on to it and sends me a bill this year.

 

[mkg3]

As far as damage to the roads heavy cars or trucks are insignificant when compared to tractor trailer rigs. Go check with any DOT. Structural design of pavements are almost completely based on these rigs. On the other hand all cars and trucks do contribute to the need for additional travel lanes which are very expensive especially if right of way is needed. It is not simple at all to evaluate vehicle impacts to our highways. I think a new funding system is needed.

In complete agreement. I would get rid of 90% of the Fed Excise tax completely on gas, if it was up to me. Just add 90% of the highway fund cost to the registration of the the Class 8 trucks. Same goes for the state taxes too. I'm in CA and we pay around $5/gal, or thereabouts now.

Of course this is too simple and there is no way that the trucking industry lobbyists would let something like this happen.

The whole construct of taxing drivers for the freeway use needs rethink.

 

[mkg3]

The problem with a tax on DCFC rates is that 90% of my driving is in PA and almost all of that power is supplied by my L2 home charger....

I don't see that as a problem. When on road trip one pays. At home and have EV utility rates (which just about everyone that has an EV), tack on a penny per kWh or some small increment. Utility companies already collect lots of fees and taxes so this will be just another.

 

[thrill]

I'd just charge vehicles where total load can be over 26,000 lbs (i.e. needs a CDL) a proportion based on weight and driven miles enough to pay for the roads and be done with it. That's a vastly smaller and so much more easily managed number than billing everyone. That expense "trickles down" to everyone so it's not like the average consumer is getting a free ride.

 

[bigsky]

Aren't all tax laws capricious and arbitrary. Even the federal tax laws are based on brackets someone made up.

Indeed. The problem with these EV taxes is that they unfairly tax EVs more than ICE cars pay road taxes.
Road taxes should be based on usage, mileage. Throw in vehicle weight for good measure. Then get rid of gas taxes altogether. That is a fair approach for eveybody.

In my case, I pay EV road tax at registration, 3x higher than what I paid for my ICE 4Runner. And for 3 EVs. That's $600 more a year, and I barely will put even 5k miles on each of my EVs.

What I decided to do, should I choose, is sit out 2 of my EVs in a given year. Avoid registration taxes for them being largely parked in my garage just like I do today by paying only comprehensive auto ins. and keeping them in "storage." That's over $2k savings a year. Take that, state.

 

[SANZC02]

In complete agreement. I would get rid of 90% of the Fed Excise tax completely on gas, if it was up to me. Just add 90% of the highway fund cost to the registration of the the Class 8 trucks. Same goes for the state taxes too. I'm in CA and we pay around $5/gal, or thereabouts now.

Of course this is too simple and there is no way that the trucking industry lobbyists would let something like this happen.

The whole construct of taxing drivers for the freeway use needs rethink.

The high cost of CA gas has always been a mystery, our fuel taxes are high but not high enough to justify the ~$2 premium over national averages.

one of the big issues in CA (I’m sure everywhere else as well) is shifting funds from buckets like fuel taxes or green sticker (off road vehicles) into general funds and then putting bonds on propositions to cover the cost of things like road repair and park maintenance.

Not sure how a kWh tax would help, someone like me who in the 2.5 years with my R1S has covered 100% of home charging with my solar. Only time I’ve paid for power in the R1S is at public chargers on trips.

It is a challenge to come up with a fair equitable solution. I know I don’t have the answer so until there is one I’ll just pay the fees they come up with.

 

[Killer95Stang]

California's love to vote in taxes... and then never question where the money goes and why the problem it was supposed to fix never gets solved. ie... preperation H... I mean measure H. More homeless in LA than when that measure was voted in. Next month they are adding another $0.65 per gallon... to the already highest in the nation gas cost. Another gas tax or EV tax would still do nothing to fix our roads. Only people that suffer with these taxes are the ones that already can barely afford the cost of driving.

 

[mkg3]

The high cost of CA gas has always been a mystery, our fuel taxes are high but not high enough to justify the ~$2 premium over national averages.

one of the big issues in CA (I’m sure everywhere else as well) is shifting funds from buckets like fuel taxes or green sticker (off road vehicles) into general funds and then putting bonds on propositions to cover the cost of things like road repair and park maintenance.

Not sure how a kWh tax would help, someone like me who in the 2.5 years with my R1S has covered 100% of home charging with my solar. Only time I’ve paid for power in the R1S is at public chargers on trips.

It is a challenge to come up with a fair equitable solution. I know I don’t have the answer so until there is one I’ll just pay the fees they come up with.

Unless you are off the grid completely, you are still offsetting some taxes and fees by the net metering credit.

My response was to the PA situation where the poster hardly ever used DCFC. Only on a long road trips. Me too. I fall in that category.

You bring up a very good point. That is if you add the CA taxes onto the national average, that price per gallon is well below the CA average price. We're even crazy enough to have voted in gasoline tax increase few elections ago.

Maybe the state will tax us more and the price will be $10/gallon at the current pace by 2030. At least we can probably count on less traffic then....

 

[socaladam]

CA voters do not like to vote up taxes, they are often tricked into thinking the new tax bill fixes the old tax bill, some bills have language that says the state can increase taxes without a future vote, it’s pure manipulation of the citizens. This is why CA has such a low voter turnout.

As far as paying my share of taxes for the roads…

Our two EVs are each double our ICE diesel for registration every year. I paid 700 last year for the diesel (8 years old), $1200 for the 21 EV, $2000 for the R1S.

Additionally, my solar array returned 10MW of power last year to the grid. The payback? $244

My current generation of solar is already at 9MW, can’t wait to see what the end of this year says.

This state is in cahoots with the power companies so strong they are robbing people like me. If I were to use 10MW in a year, my bill would be between $2500-$3500. If the state is looking to supplement my EVs road taxes, they can take it from the electric company.

 

[atebit]

We also don’t pay the $35 to $50 Emissions Test fee so I consider that financially as an offset to the tax.

We don’t pay it because the inspecting station doesn’t need to perform the work & issue the sticker. Having to pay the emissions inspection fee would truly be the taxation without…something.

 

[COdogman]

CA voters do not like to vote up taxes, they are often tricked into thinking the new tax bill fixes the old tax bill, some bills have language that says the state can increase taxes without a future vote, it’s pure manipulation of the citizens. This is why CA has such a low voter turnout.

As far as paying my share of taxes for the roads…

Our two EVs are each double our ICE diesel for registration every year. I paid 700 last year for the diesel (8 years old), $1200 for the 21 EV, $2000 for the R1S.

Additionally, my solar array returned 10MW of power last year to the grid. The payback? $244

My current generation of solar is already at 9MW, can’t wait to see what the end of this year says.

This state is in cahoots with the power companies so strong they are robbing people like me. If I were to use 10MW in a year, my bill would be between $2500-$3500. If the state is looking to supplement my EVs road taxes, they can take it from the electric company.

Your solar array had enough surplus in 1 year to power 6000-8000 homes?

 

[SRO]

I don't see that as a problem. When on road trip one pays. At home and have EV utility rates (which just about everyone that has an EV), tack on a penny per kWh or some small increment. Utility companies already collect lots of fees and taxes so this will be just another.

Most of my home charging is covered by my solar panels. Also in 3 years I have yet to DCFC.

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