Programmers vs Programs

[RiviALAN]

Let me start by saying that I love my R1T! Driving a ICE vehicle is grueling after a year plus of having my Rivian! However, I get frustrated every time there is an update because I have to wonder what glitch will pop up after it is installed! So,can the more tech savvy among us please explain why Rivian can't do these updates without giving us more headaches? Is it the people they have hired to update the software or the software itself?

Sponsored

 

[Cycliste]

Gobs of processors with different operating systems with multiple layers of additional software. What could go wrong?

 

[Dark-Fx]

I haven't noticed anything recently.

 

[CharonPDX]

Software is hard.

Modern car infotainment software is REALLY hard.

 

[GRC]

complexity comes from the number of different components controlled by software - Every code/software change has some type of downward impact and even though software goes through rigorous QA process, it is hard to replicate every scenario including edge cases which are often the ones that slip through...

 

[CompilerBreak]

Even running on (nearly) the same hardware, your vehicle could be in thousands of possible configurations when the updates run. Good design will of course minimize the risk, but it's just not feasible to test every single combination of states. (And I'll add, in my experiences with other OEMs with far more resources, they're not necessarily any better). In my job we'll test things hundreds if not thousands of times before releasing and still end up with some random issues that pop up on Reddit...

 

[BrayBay]

Haven't been in the software world in a while, but I'll give it a shot.

Software engineering is an incredibly complex field, especially when you throw in a vehicle too. In software development there are typically many staging areas to ensure quality assurance (QA) testing is done before it is rolled out to the production environment. Unlike say building a bridge, you can relatively easily roll back any glitches or bugs that are discovered in the QA process.

However as you scale up from something like a simple website to something as complex as a Rivian, the difficulty of getting "perfect" software is exponentially harder. Think about how many different sensors (e.g, computing units, user interface elements, networking/communications devices, etc...) that comes in a Rivian. Also think about every possible situation a Rivian could be in (e.g., temperature, weather, terrain, etc...) and how different every driver is. They all have to work together. That makes an almost infinite amount of combinations to account for. Glitches will make there way through inevitably.

You can have the all best software engineers in the world, but no amount of talent can ever consider every single possible situation that comes up. Fortunately, due to the nature of software being capable of continuously improvement, things will get better over time. In more traditional vehicles, I could never sit in my car a year later and it be a better car.

 

[Cycliste]

My little hobby app for iPhone and Watch (I'm the only user--not on the App Store) has 4032 lines of code, including the blank ones, and uses 5 frameworks. Plus Apple updates their frameworks and tools every year. It's just a lot of places for stuff to break. And then there is all the security certificates that can expire...

 

[beatle]

(And I'll add, in my experiences with other OEMs with far more resources, they're not necessarily any better).

Definitely. Just ask Volkswagen!

 

[schwartz83]

I'm on the business side of software development and I'm honestly surprised the updates have been as smooth as they have been. Not that there haven't been issues.

 

[Cycliste]

Plus those pesky users are so unpredictable when trying to get something done with your software.

 

[SPITmadFIRE]

there's no way this community of 75% software engineer members will have strong opinions about this, nope not one bit.

 

[feifan]

As a software engineer, every update makes me a bit nervous, and I won't install updates before trips or when I'm away from home … BUT so far with my Rivian (and 3 years of Tesla updates before that), I've never had an update that brought new bugs.

 

[NY_Rob]

As a software engineer, every update makes me a bit nervous, and I won't install updates before trips or when I'm away from home …

As an IT person, I feel exactly the same way. And, to go a bit further, I try to hold off updates till conditions allow that I can leave the driver window down just in case the update bricks the vehicle. At least that way, I'll still be able to get inside to aid in recovery efforts.

 

[Zoidz]

Is it the people they have hired to update the software or the software itself?

Yes.

Like any profession, Rivian likely has software engineers with a wide range of skills and abilities working on the software. Mistakes happen, and the more complex the system is, the more complex and obscure the bugs can become. When you are on a development schedule, at some point somoeone has to make the decision that enough testing has been done to release the update. That's the people side.

On the software side, RIvian (as evidenced by their Job Position advertisments) is using several, or many, 3rd party Software Development Environments, libraries, etc. to build their software. Each time that software is updated, potential issues arise that may be out of Rivian's direct control. In my work, we see this frequently with the Rockwell Software that we use for manufacturing control systems development. And anyone who works with Visual Studio and Microsoft .NET knows similar headaches. That's been my work nightmare the past few weeks, lol.

I'm actually surprised and pleased that with the complexity of what Rivian is doing that they are maintaining this pace of the release schedule with significant updates. I feel that Rivian is doing a pretty darn good job given the complexity.

Sponsored