Quad vs Dual - snow performance?

[R.I.P.]

I am very skeptical about claims that dual motors with locking differentials will always be better than quad motors. I do not believe that a tiny amount of slippage before a quad motor reduces torque will have an effect on overall stability. ABS systems reduce braking force only after detecting slippage and the effect on stability is neglible. I think that a good quad motor implementation should be able to accurately emulate a dual motor locked differential situation if it is advantageous. At other times, when not tracking a straight line on an even road surface, it will be more advantageous to vary the RPMs of the four wheels.

The piece that you are missing is that with a differential, laws of physics dictates that slippage will always occur on the side with the least traction; making the vehicle inherently laterally stable (side with the most traction does not slip).

Once both wheels on the axle are slipping, the vehicle is inherently laterally unstable, and they are trying to correct that with software. Granted, it is a lot better than when we first started testing the quads, but the problem can never be completely eliminated... you know, physics & all.

Dude, nobody is disagreeing about the situation you describe. We are saying that in normal driving in snow (which is what the OP asked about, not about off camber cliffside situations) there is likely no difference at all. You may encounter these situations regularly and the DM is a better buy for you, but that doesn't mean it will out perform the quad for a vast majority of other buyers.

I completely agree that quad outperforms in a number of areas. Quad is faster, hands down. Quad wins when it comes to desert racing, when you are trying to get every last bit of forward motion out of each wheel. Quad wins on the fun meter when in rally mode for sure.

I am just trying to point out an area, which I would argue applies to the OP, where dual actually feels much more secure, and I would be far more comfortable letting my wife drive it on icy and snowy roads.
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[endress14]

The piece that you are missing is that with a differential, laws of physics dictates that slippage will always occur on the side with the least traction; making the vehicle inherently laterally stable (side with the most traction does not slip).

Once both wheels on the axle are slipping, the vehicle is inherently laterally unstable, and they are trying to correct that with software. Granted, it is a lot better than when we first started testing the quads, but the problem can never be completely eliminated... you know, physics & all.


I completely agree that quad outperforms in a number of areas. Quad is faster, hands down. Quad wins when it comes to desert racing, when you are trying to get every last bit of forward motion out of each wheel. Quad wins on the fun meter when in rally mode for sure.

I am just trying to point out an area, which I would argue applies to the OP, where dual actually feels much more secure, and I would be far more comfortable letting my wife drive it on icy and snowy roads.
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Fair enough! I also wasn't trying to imply the quad was in any way superior for normal situations either. For the way i drive, i probably couldn't tell any difference. Not a decision I had to make because DM wasn't available when my order was up!

 

[teartags]

Instead of spending all this money on new Rivians, why don't you pay a grader to come up there and level out your driveway?

 

[R.I.P.]

Instead of spending all this money on new Rivians, why don't you pay a grader to come up there and level out your driveway?

I live on 160 acres off grid on the top of a mountain. From my cabin, it is 2 and 1/2 mi to the nearest Forest service road. I greatly enjoy being hard to get to. ?

Edit:
My power comes from my own personal hydroelectric plant which is augmented by a solar array of course. My views on one side are the Rogue River, and the Kalamiopsis wilderness on the other side.

This is Rivian forum, so I am sure that most of you get it.
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[av8or]

IMHO the quad motor R1T is the best vehicle I’ve ever had in the snow. it’s traction and stability control are extremely fast to react to slipping.

 

[av8or]

I live on 160 acres off grid on the top of a mountain. From my cabin, it is 2 and 1/2 mi to the nearest Forest service road. I greatly enjoy being hard to get to. ?

Edit:
My power comes from my own personal hydroelectric plant which is augmented by a solar array of course. My views on one side are the Rogue River, and the Kalamiopsis wilderness on the other side.

This is Rivian forum, so I am sure that most of you get it.
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Beautiful view! You must not live in azalea anymore.

 

[R.I.P.]

Beautiful view! You must not live in azalea anymore.

Lol... Horse ranch in Azalea, cabin in Galice, & a bungalow in San Carlos.

I am often moving between them, so I put a lot of miles on my vehicles.

 

[Ingo B]

Lol... Horse ranch in Azalea, cabin in Galice, & a bungalow in San Carlos.

I am often moving between them, so I put a lot of miles on my vehicles.

San Carlos, CA? Bungalow indeed, and I'll bet it's priced higher than the other two properties. CA is ridiculous.

 

[R.I.P.]

San Carlos, CA? Bungalow indeed, and I'll bet it's priced higher than the other two properties. CA is ridiculous.

San Carlos, Mexico.

Currently I use one of the two Teslas we have as Mexico runners. Looking forward to Elon letting me use the superchargers down there with my Rivian.

Back to the topic at hand, if all my time was spent down in Baja, I would be a quad motor man all the way! They rock in that environment!
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[DJC]

Thanks for this epic debate - really helpful insight.

So if you assume I'm not going to put myself in a spot where I can slide sideways off a cliff here in Tahoe anytime soon (I have a flat driveway!), and I'm an experienced driver in the snow, and the price difference between DM and QM is small - would you still go QM for all around value/performance?

Sounds like an impossible q to get a straight answer on - some seem all in on QM, some seem to vote DM, others think the difference is negligible.

 

[R.I.P.]

Thanks for this epic debate - really helpful insight.

So if you assume I'm not going to put myself in a spot where I can slide sideways off a cliff here in Tahoe anytime soon (I have a flat driveway!), and I'm an experienced driver in the snow, and the price difference between DM and QM is small - would you still go QM for all around value/performance?

Sounds like an impossible q to get a straight answer on - some seem all in on QM, some seem to vote DM, others think the difference is negligible.

Pick the quad for fastest acceleration, and great performance on high traction surfaces.

Pick the dual for best handling in slippery stuff, economy, range, and to be able to use the lockers that are in the pipeline.

 

[jjswan33]

Thanks for this epic debate - really helpful insight.

So if you assume I'm not going to put myself in a spot where I can slide sideways off a cliff here in Tahoe anytime soon (I have a flat driveway!), and I'm an experienced driver in the snow, and the price difference between DM and QM is small - would you still go QM for all around value/performance?

Sounds like an impossible q to get a straight answer on - some seem all in on QM, some seem to vote DM, others think the difference is negligible.

I think what a lot of us are saying is in a highway over the mountain pass to the ski area kinda environment (I spend a lot of time on Mt Hood and in the cascades as well). Either the DM or the QM with a set of winter tires is going to preform great.

Other cost, range, HP, resale considerations is what I would consider debating between the two.

 

[Smeek]

quad for sure, unless you are regularly going off road in the snow and getting up on two wheels.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Thanks for this epic debate - really helpful insight.

So if you assume I'm not going to put myself in a spot where I can slide sideways off a cliff here in Tahoe anytime soon (I have a flat driveway!), and I'm an experienced driver in the snow, and the price difference between DM and QM is small - would you still go QM for all around value/performance?

Sounds like an impossible q to get a straight answer on - some seem all in on QM, some seem to vote DM, others think the difference is negligible.

Get the quad.

Each drivetrain has its drawbacks, but the quad is the most comprehensive, bang for your buck package. Plus the warranty has a longer duration.

 

[Mina]

Hey all - I did some searching before posting, but didn't see anything specific on this topic. Also recognize it might be too early to tell given the Dual Motor deliveries haven't been through a winter season yet...

I hold a Quad Motor R1T reservation - I put it on hold earlier this year to wait on news about the Powered Tonneau coming back. Now we have more clarity, I'm thinking about re-activating the order / grabbing an R1T from the store.

Does anyone have any strong feelings either way on whether the quad motor will perform better in snow vs the dual? We live in Lake Tahoe, so that's the main consideration for performance of the car vs off-road capabilities (albeit, plenty of dirt roads around here). Assume both would have snow tires, so it's purely a question of motor performance vs wheels/tires.

Cheers!

Quad motor does need some software upgrading still, but it is clearly the future.
Differentials are going to be thing of the past. People talk about differentials, but most of them are unable to lock their diffs when they get stuck in the snow or mud. 4WD, one wheel keeps spinning, rest of the wheels standing still. Same old, every winter. Only few trucks have the true diff. locks. (Powerwagon, H2, H1 etc.)
Go out to Alder Creek Road on Icy conditions toward Tahoe Donner and see: quad motor has the control to straighten the truck up, before you start skidding. Software reacts faster than human being + each wheel controlled by it's own motor.
Can't perform like that with dual.

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