R1S Owners Guide Manual Available! ? (August 22, 2022)

[Jac]

With a rear mat on top the 3rd row disappears completely, no?

That’s my fall back plan but I’ll still have to contend with the unwanted padded third row armrests with dogs in the area behind the second row.

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[SoCal Rob]

I'm not trying to pick on you because you seem pretty reasonable, but a $50k SUV built in 2006 is a $71.5k in 2022 dollars so it's not like you're paying more for less now.

For the more direct comparison, I can build out a "comparable" Defender S that hits my high points for around $70k, but that's with the P300 and judicious screening of options that come nowhere close to what Rivian is offering. Step up to SE and add 3rd row, climate packs and all the advanced suspension and electronic goodies required to actually match the R1S (plus 3 zone climate lol), now you're close to $80k (remembering R1S is $70k after rebate) with half the horsepower and an arguably less capable suspension. Choose the V8 for an even fairer comparison and now you're over $110k!

All that to point out, again, that we're in no way getting "screwed" by the absence of these features.

I appreciate you being reasonable, too.

I think it could be fair to say that with an inflation adjusted cost of $71.5 for a (near) luxury SUV with 3 zones of climate control compared to a $79,925 Rivian R1S (my build, which doesn't include extra cost paint or interior) with 2 zones of climate control it is getting less zones of climate control for more money. Now, what is hard to determine is if the rest of the myriad of other differences between the Rivian and the Land Rover make it a reasonable comparison. Even if you ignore the fundamental difference of the drivetrain, the Rivian (even better suspension, larger display, driver assistance systems, real wood trim, frunk storage, etc.) and the 2006 comparison vehicle LR3 (sun shades for all 3 rows of sunroof, real leather on the interior, 2 glove boxes and a center console drink cooler, full-size spare tire onboard, etc.) each have plusses and minuses.

I never said anything like we are getting "screwed" and I haven't even said that any of the features I want, which are pretty common features in similar vehicles, would be deal killers for me. As I said even before the March pricing increase/restoration, the Rivian is a good value to me when I look at what goes into the vehicle also taking into account the inherent risk of being an early adopter of a new model from a new company.

I always assumed that since there was a climate control panel accessible from the second row that there was at least an additional zone for the rear. I think this is a defensible assumption since I have never seen another SUV with a second-row climate panel and vents dedicated to rear passengers which DID NOT have its own zone. This is why I still think (hope?) that Rivian has the hardware in place and will enable the controls with a future OTA update. I seem to recall that Tesla did this with Model 3 or Y with heated steering wheel which was later added to the UI controls for the vehicles which already had the hardware present.

If Rivian as a startup company wants to be considered in the same class as the traditional manufacturers then I think they need to be competitive on their features for a price. So, as an example, maybe someday Rivian comes out with a trim level called Luxury Adventure which adds to the current Adventure trim: ventilated seats for the heated second row outboard positions, heated third row seats, a separate HVAC zone (or 2) for the rear, a power sunshade or electrochromic glass, and a HUD. I'd happily pay up to $7,500 for that and seriously consider it up to $10K. Of all those items the only one I expected to be in the existing Adventure package was a rear climate control zone.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I decide what the real problems are!

The issue is that people are often complaining vociferously about minor details and this fills the thread up with noise. People might be reading this thread to find out details of what the manual says instead of what feature someone thinks is missing.

The issue is also that people try to invalidate or marginalize the omissions thus leading to more explanation of why people want or need specific features. If the, "I know what you want and need better than YOU do!" crowd wouldn't keep raising the issue it would probably die down a LOT faster.

Ultimately, we're all here to talk about Rivians and that's what we're doing. Hopefully in a civil way. It would be fantastic if the forum were structured in such a way that subtopics could branch away from a topic and leave the original topic dedicated to the title.

 

[Gator42]

…I’m still of the belief there will be an OTA surprise for the rear seats in the future…

 

[mkg3]

I have a 6 week old and a 2 year old (and 9 and 11 year olds). I need to have access to the young ones. I can't stick them in the 3rd row.

In my VW Atlas, I have the two little ones in the 2nd row door seats and the 11 year old in between them. The 9 year old goes in the 3rd row. The 3rd row access is super easy because the entire 2nd row seat tilts forward with the carseat in it.

I'm going to see how it works. I see two options. Maybe the access is ok with the 2nd row seat sliding forward enough for my 9 year old to climb back to the 3rd row. Otherwise I'll have to put the two car seats next to each other, and the 11 year old will sit by the door.

It's not the end of the world. I know these are silly first world problems. I have just grown accustomed to my current functionality.

First, I completely understand and recall when my kids were those ages. Mine are 2.5 yrs apart.

The thing is, 6 weeks old probably needs to be in the backward facing car seat in the 2nd row, but the 2 yrs old can be in the 3rd row. Since you have 11 and 9 yr olds, they can attend to whatever the 2 yrs old (and even the infant's) needs for a short period while you're driving, right?

The other thing is we did split the car seats behind the driver's side's 2nd and 3rd rows for a while. This way the passenger side 2nd row had free movements and access to the 3rd row easily. Besides, my wife could reach diagonally across to the 2nd row easily to attend to our youngest then (sometimes climbed into the back seats to attend to them).

 

[Franksmartin]

I appreciate you being reasonable, too.

I think it could be fair to say that with an inflation adjusted cost of $71.5 for a (near) luxury SUV with 3 zones of climate control compared to a $79,925 Rivian R1S (my build, which doesn't include extra cost paint or interior) with 2 zones of climate control it is getting less zones of climate control for more money. Now, what is hard to determine is if the rest of the myriad of other differences between the Rivian and the Land Rover make it a reasonable comparison. Even if you ignore the fundamental difference of the drivetrain, the Rivian (even better suspension, larger display, driver assistance systems, real wood trim, frunk storage, etc.) and the 2006 comparison vehicle LR3 (sun shades for all 3 rows of sunroof, real leather on the interior, 2 glove boxes and a center console drink cooler, full-size spare tire onboard, etc.) each have plusses and minuses.

I never said anything like we are getting "screwed" and I haven't even said that any of the features I want, which are pretty common features in similar vehicles, would be deal killers for me. As I said even before the March pricing increase/restoration, the Rivian is a good value to me when I look at what goes into the vehicle also taking into account the inherent risk of being an early adopter of a new model from a new company.

I always assumed that since there was a climate control panel accessible from the second row that there was at least an additional zone for the rear. I think this is a defensible assumption since I have never seen another SUV with a second-row climate panel and vents dedicated to rear passengers which DID NOT have its own zone. This is why I still think (hope?) that Rivian has the hardware in place and will enable the controls with a future OTA update. I seem to recall that Tesla did this with Model 3 or Y with heated steering wheel which was later added to the UI controls for the vehicles which already had the hardware present.

If Rivian as a startup company wants to be considered in the same class as the traditional manufacturers then I think they need to be competitive on their features for a price. So, as an example, maybe someday Rivian comes out with a trim level called Luxury Adventure which adds to the current Adventure trim: ventilated seats for the heated second row outboard positions, heated third row seats, a separate HVAC zone (or 2) for the rear, a power sunshade or electrochromic glass, and a HUD. I'd happily pay up to $7,500 for that and seriously consider it up to $10K. Of all those items the only one I expected to be in the existing Adventure package was a rear climate control zone.

Just FYI I think it’s fake wood, fiberglass.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Just FYI I think it’s fake wood, fiberglass.

It’s real wood. Ash, iirc.

 

[Franksmartin]

It’s real wood. Ash, iirc.

Huh ok this guy says it’s fiberglass, doesn’t matter to me I think it looks cool either way

 

[Zoidz]

My 2019 Yukon does not.

2016 BMW X3 HUD does not work with polarized sunglasses.

 

[caliwagon]

I have a 6 week old and a 2 year old (and 9 and 11 year olds). I need to have access to the young ones. I can't stick them in the 3rd row.

In my VW Atlas, I have the two little ones in the 2nd row door seats and the 11 year old in between them. The 9 year old goes in the 3rd row. The 3rd row access is super easy because the entire 2nd row seat tilts forward with the carseat in it.

I'm going to see how it works. I see two options. Maybe the access is ok with the 2nd row seat sliding forward enough for my 9 year old to climb back to the 3rd row. Otherwise I'll have to put the two car seats next to each other, and the 11 year old will sit by the door.

It's not the end of the world. I know these are silly first world problems. I have just grown accustomed to my current functionality.

The VW Atlas is probably the benchmark in the size class for 2nd and 3rd row space, packaging, and access. I feel like Rivian could have tried to beat the Atlas in this category (no driveshaft, no fuel tank, and boxier styling make it possible), but this was not Rivian's priority. The only question is how far off the R1S will be from the Atlas, Traverse, Telluride, etc. in this category.

If the R1S 2nd and 3rd row space, access, and carseat friendliness end up being poor for the size class, it may be worth waiting for the KIA EV9. With the success of the Telluride in part due to its minivan-like interior, KIA is not going to mess up the EV9's interior usability.

 

[Matt D.]

Yup, 100% with you. Annoying to have waited 3 years for this disappointing answer, especially considering CS had said several times in the last 2 years the feature was there…all this from a startup helmed by a CEO with several young kids who said his wife gave input on access etc.

While I doubt cup holders and climate zones will be a dealbreaker for many, this, coupled with the absence of a captain chairs option, will be for several reservation holders with more than 2 young kids.

And for the “just chill” fanboys on here… please do tell me what incorporating this important feature for some would have taken away from those who won’t need it?

I guess the good news is that when I ordered my R1S I needed this feature but by the time I get it, I no longer will…

 

[Zoidz]

…I’m still of the belief there will be an OTA surprise for the rear seats in the future…

I highly doubt it. It's unlikely the hardware is in place for rear temperature control. Having owned two Suburbans, I know how that system works, and I have engineering experience with cooling/refrigeration/air conditioning systems. If you are familiar with mini-split AC systems for homes, it is the same basic concept. One condensor unit, multiple evaporator units.

In the Suburban/Tahoe/Yukon, there is a completely separate set of refrigerant lines, expansion valve and evaporator coil in the rear to create the rear cooling zone. A picture of the removed assembly is below, it's located in the rear quarter panel in the picture. Land Rover also has a rear evaporator assembly, see the second picture. I'm guessing most/all vehicles with rear systems are built this way.

There's no evidence that Rivian has this rear hardware in place. And it needs more electrical power to run it, so there goes your range.

I suppose it's possible to get the cold air from the front evaporator and use blend doors to mix warm and cold air to set the temperature. But that's a big challenge to route the ducting and get any meaningful air flow volume. That's why it's done with a rear evaprator.

I'm not holding my breath that Rivian has the hardware in place for rear temp control.

 

[JayinNJ]

I really hope that that is a very early pre-production unit. The way the seats fold flat, loose looking carpeting as well as misalignment looks very sloppy.

The source said it was production model. You can't see in this picture, but there is also a very large bump going from the false floor to the 3rd row.

 

[PostMinivanDad]

I guess the good news is that when I ordered my R1S I needed this feature but by the time I get it, I no longer will…

Dont be so sure…By the time you get your truck, you might end up actually needing it for your grandkids

 

[AxelR]

It does not appear to be in the 400 volt architecture but very much appears to be in the next 800 volt architecture vehicles.

Which vehicles have the 800V architecture?

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