Reservations About My Reservation

[DucRider]

I have all those same thoughts and concerns. I realize I’m not behaving reasonably buying an unseen, unproven vehicle Just because I’ve wanted an electric truck for YEARS.

You will have an opportunity to see and drive it before purchase (assuming COVID restrictions ease before next summer)

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[Hmp10]

I can't imagine manufacturers holding us liable for the full value of the vehicle until we take delivery - can they?

I've bought two Teslas and was required to wire the full balance to Tesla before they would set up a delivery appointment. They expect you to rely on their 7-day return policy if something is wrong with the vehicle. Some sketchy communications from Lucid about delivery plans suggest they are going the same way.

Although these are vehicles, they are also merchandise that is sold on the internet where most transactions are for items you don't see before buying and for which you must pay before shipment. Early signs are that is going to be the arrangement that will carry into auto sales on the internet, at least for manufacturers that do not have a dealer network.

 

[catmandew]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes it reduces the payment in other ways besides a straight up Capital Cost Reduction.

BMW did not pass on the entire $7,500 in the early leases for the i3 - IIRC it was ~$4,500 of it.
Chevy's early leases on the Bolt applied about ~$3,500 as a CCR, with additional amounts going to an artificially high residual value reducing the depreciation and rent portions of the lease (GM financial could not sell it for the residual at the end of the lease and therefoe showed an early profit offset by a loss at lease end) combined with a below market money factor. All of these worked to get about the same monthly payment as if they had directly applied the $7,500 as a CCR.

If you haven't seen it before, this site can be a nice source of info when lease shopping:
http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/

My local Audi dealers shows that they are applying $7,500 as a CCR on their advertised e tron leases.

Thanks, DucRider!

 

[Dohmar]

Looking at a hard shell Roof Top Tent (RTT). The big disadvantage is indeed the ladder, but being able to have a decent bed/mattress and being able to keep the bedding in place when closing the tent is attractive. As is not having roots/rocks/uneven ground under your spine or hips.
Won't miss packing up the tent and rolling/compressing the sleeping pads and bags. Camping by motorcycle is not too different than backpacking except weight is not much issue (space is the constraining factor).

Those are the advantages I see too. Do you think there would be a clamshell design, one that would fold out towards the bed and make it an extra large rooftop tent? Would fit the R1S too...

Being able to stop, pop the tent and get in, while the weather is foul, is a huge advantage to me. Though I'm also wondering how you could integrate the AC/kitchen into the tent so if you did want to boil the kettle without getting out, you could...

-D

 

[ohmman]

I've bought two Teslas and was required to wire the full balance to Tesla before they would set up a delivery appointment. They expect you to rely on their 7-day return policy if something is wrong with the vehicle.

I refused to wire the funds to Tesla in advance, and brought a personal check to delivery for both vehicles. They accepted that in 2014 and 2016; policies may have changed since then.

Regarding the R1T having a somewhat "luxurious" interior and that being incompatible with adventure seeking, I don't think I agree. So long as it's easy to clean, there's no downside to having something comfortable. Airstreams are sold to people who want to park at an RV park and do nothing but enjoy being away from home, but also sold to people who want to boondock in the National Forests/BLM land and go climbing or hiking. We fit the latter category.

There's a risk of gatekeeping here, and I personally would like to avoid that. If someone buys a Rivian for a daily driver, never puts anything in the bed besides a backpack, and never goes hiking once, that's still a perfectly legitimate use for them. Just as if someone buys it to tent camp somewhere that's barely accessible, that's a legitimate use. The broader the appeal, the more likely the company is to be successful.

 

[ajdelange]

I refused to wire the funds to Tesla in advance, and brought a personal check to delivery for both vehicles. They accepted that in 2014 and 2016; policies may have changed since then.

You paid for your vehicle via ACH (Automated Clearing House) transfer. That is the same thing you would have done had you paid online the previous night. Rather than bring a check you could have simply paid on line at the store. Your check was scanned or photographed and the instant that was done the funds were transferred from your account to Tesla's. The first time I encountered this I was quite puzzled. I was buying a Lexus and was sent in to see the finance lady. After I said I didn't wan't any extended warranty I asked how to pay for it. She said to just write a personal check. I did, she dropped it into a scanner and handed it back to me. I asked how did she know it wouldn't bounce. She replied that it didn't.

So if you want to put eyes on the car before you authorize the ACH I don't see why Tesla or Rivian should object. They won't give you the car until you do and if your bank indicates the funds are not there they won't give you the car either.

 

[Babbuino]

Bollinger sounds more like your cup of tea although as a boutique offering it's a bit pricey for a TOAD.

Just saw this. I guess they are letting people in Cali see the vehicles
https://bollingermotors.com/california-october-2020/

 

[Kickaha]

Just saw this. I guess they are letting people in Cali see the vehicles
https://bollingermotors.com/california-october-2020/

If I wanted an ugly, boxey truck, I would buy a Jeep.

I thought I hate the Cybertruck look - and then I saw the Bollinger! But thats me.

 

[RivFly]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes it reduces the payment in other ways besides a straight up Capital Cost Reduction.

BMW did not pass on the entire $7,500 in the early leases for the i3 - IIRC it was ~$4,500 of it.
Chevy's early leases on the Bolt applied about ~$3,500 as a CCR, with additional amounts going to an artificially high residual value reducing the depreciation and rent portions of the lease (GM financial could not sell it for the residual at the end of the lease and therefoe showed an early profit offset by a loss at lease end) combined with a below market money factor. All of these worked to get about the same monthly payment as if they had directly applied the $7,500 as a CCR.

If you haven't seen it before, this site can be a nice source of info when lease shopping:
http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/

My local Audi dealers shows that they are applying $7,500 as a CCR on their advertised e tron leases.

I guess that's one question I had too.....how does the $7500 credit apply? I was having this discussion with a Tesla friend and we both read this differently. Basically as I understand it, whatever you configure they will deduct $7500 after everything is said and done? Is that how it works or is it just a TAX credit at the end of the year?

As for other reservations, I need a 400+ milage range as I plan to use this R1T as a truck. Its got to tow, haul and go off road otherwise I'd go buy a regular pickup. I've never imagined spending close to $70k on a pickup let alone any vehicle.

I have a First Edition Bronco on reservation and thats $60K......which unfortunately is right where a diesel JL Rubicon is at as well. Yes, I understand these are totally different vehicles and I understand the planet implications but usefulness and practicality are at the top of my requirements which means I need range. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the planet isn't in need of my help but as I discus these vary needs with my Tesla friends, unless an EV is useful, affordable and slots right into someones life with little change in patterns (gas stops, basic driving without range anxiety etc), it will take much longer then those that can afford it and willing to make the environmental choice. These are some of the reasons why I joined this forum, looking for answers and trying to see how this can work for me.

I'm sure the configurator once up will answer a lot of questions. as you've read, range and price being my big issues. In the end, I'm hoping it will be a badass useful truck/SUV with the plus side of being EV and helping out the planet. Time as they say, will tell.

 

[Kickaha]

I guess that's one question I had too.....how does the $7500 credit apply? I was having this discussion with a Tesla friend and we both read this differently. Basically as I understand it, whatever you configure they will deduct $7500 after everything is said and done? Is that how it works or is it just a TAX credit at the end of the year?

As for other reservations, I need a 400+ milage range as I plan to use this R1T as a truck. Its got to tow, haul and go off road otherwise I'd go buy a regular pickup. I've never imagined spending close to $70k on a pickup let alone any vehicle.

I have a First Edition Bronco on reservation and thats $60K......which unfortunately is right where a diesel JL Rubicon is at as well. Yes, I understand these are totally different vehicles and I understand the planet implications but usefulness and practicality are at the top of my requirements which means I need range. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the planet isn't in need of my help but as I discus these vary needs with my Tesla friends, unless an EV is useful, affordable and slots right into someones life with little change in patterns (gas stops, basic driving without range anxiety etc), it will take much longer then those that can afford it and want to make the environmental choice. These are some of the reasons why I joined this forum, looking for answers and trying to see how this can work for me.

I'm sure the configurator once up will answer a lot of questions. as you've read, range and price being my big issues. In the end, I'm hoping it will be a badass useful truck/SUV with the plus side of being EV and helping out the planet. Time as they say, will tell.

I dont know how a lease works but I bought my 2016 Tesla Model X via bank loan. I paid full price and got the $7500 off my Federal Tax Return as a credit when I filed in 2017. In addition to the sales tax deduction I paid for buying a new vehicle.

I do think the way Tesla presents the cost of their vehicles to be misleading. Its not lying, its marketing! (I should know, I am in marketing)

 

[electruck]

I need a 400+ milage range as I plan to use this R1T as a truck. Its got to tow, haul and go off road otherwise I'd go buy a regular pickup.

A Rivian will most certainly tow, haul and go offroad. Where it may not meet your expectations is if you need that 400+ mile range while towing. Expect a significant drop in range when towing - as in 50% depending on what is being towed. You can also expect additional drops in range from the usual suspects such as highway speeds (towing should help to reduce your speed), temperature extremes, etc.

 

[Babbuino]

A Rivian will most certainly tow, haul and go offroad. Where it may not meet your expectations is if you need that 400+ mile range while towing. Expect a significant drop in range when towing - as in 50% depending on what is being towed. You can also expect additional drops in range from the usual suspects such as highway speeds (towing should help to reduce your speed), temperature extremes, etc.

I also wonder how going off road will affect the battery drain on a heavy vehicle like the R1T. On PHEV SUVs, the electric range drops quite a bit when pushing them a bit harder through semi difficult trails.

 

[DucRider]

I guess that's one question I had too.....how does the $7500 credit apply? I was having this discussion with a Tesla friend and we both read this differently. Basically as I understand it, whatever you configure they will deduct $7500 after everything is said and done? Is that how it works or is it just a TAX credit at the end of the year?

As for other reservations, I need a 400+ milage range as I plan to use this R1T as a truck. Its got to tow, haul and go off road otherwise I'd go buy a regular pickup. I've never imagined spending close to $70k on a pickup let alone any vehicle.

I have a First Edition Bronco on reservation and thats $60K......which unfortunately is right where a diesel JL Rubicon is at as well. Yes, I understand these are totally different vehicles and I understand the planet implications but usefulness and practicality are at the top of my requirements which means I need range. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the planet isn't in need of my help but as I discus these vary needs with my Tesla friends, unless an EV is useful, affordable and slots right into someones life with little change in patterns (gas stops, basic driving without range anxiety etc), it will take much longer then those that can afford it and willing to make the environmental choice. These are some of the reasons why I joined this forum, looking for answers and trying to see how this can work for me.

I'm sure the configurator once up will answer a lot of questions. as you've read, range and price being my big issues. In the end, I'm hoping it will be a badass useful truck/SUV with the plus side of being EV and helping out the planet. Time as they say, will tell.

An EV will require a change in patterns and will not be a direct replacement for the ICE vehicles you are comparing to. If you do not want to change your patterns and driving habits, probably best to stick with ICE vehicles. EVs have different characteristics and will behave very differently from ICE vehicles. If you are not willing to embrace those differences, best just to move along.

If you are expecting 400+ miles of range with the usage pattern you are describing, an EV is not for you. For "basic driving", you will leave every morning with a full tank and 400 miles is likely overkill the only time you will need to refuel is on long road trips, and it WILL take much more time than it take to fill your ICE vehicle (and you will have to do it more often). Cold weather, towing and elevated speeds will all bring your range to far below 400 miles. (these all impact ICE range as well but the short fill up times allow people to ignore them).

Range anxiety varies by the individual (and what they are used to). Some people with higher range EVs report range anxiety when their remaining range drops to 50 miles. A used LEAF may not have that range (under some conditions) even when fully charged. If you don;t want to plan your route and other trip details, but just stop to refuel when you think it is time - an EV is not for you.

EVs have many advantages, but most that drive them do not put the environmental aspect at the top of their list. Performance, convenience, reduced fuel and maintenance costs are some that are most frequently mentioned.

The $7,500 is a nonrefundable tax credit. If your tax liability for the year is less than $7,500 you will not be able to fully utilize the credit (and it will not roll over to subsequent tax years). This is completely unrelated to whether or not you would otherwise owe or get a refund when you file.

 

[RivFly]

A Rivian will most certainly tow, haul and go offroad. Where it may not meet your expectations is if you need that 400+ mile range while towing. Expect a significant drop in range when towing - as in 50% depending on what is being towed. You can also expect additional drops in range from the usual suspects such as highway speeds (towing should help to reduce your speed), temperature extremes, etc.

I totally get that! Thats one of those direct crossover patterns I was mentioning as compared to an ICE vehicle. Towing drops MPG......nothing different there.

I also wonder how going off road will affect the battery drain on a heavy vehicle like the R1T. On PHEV SUVs, the electric range drops quite a bit when pushing them a bit harder through semi difficult trails.

I completely get that too. Its also why range is important and one of the big differences between people city-roving and/or mall-roving verse going off the beaten path! Going off road has its own built in range anxiety. To anyone who deals with any kinda off the beaten path travel, they can also relate to EV travel. The only difference I see is not being able to bring a gas can.

An EV will require a change in patterns and will not be a direct replacement for the ICE vehicles you are comparing to. If you do not want to change your patterns and driving habits, probably best to stick with ICE vehicles. EVs have different characteristics and will behave very differently from ICE vehicles. If you are not willing to embrace those differences, best just to move along.

If you are expecting 400+ miles of range with the usage pattern you are describing, an EV is not for you. For "basic driving", you will leave every morning with a full tank and 400 miles is likely overkill the only time you will need to refuel is on long road trips, and it WILL take much more time than it take to fill your ICE vehicle (and you will have to do it more often). Cold weather, towing and elevated speeds will all bring your range to far below 400 miles. (these all impact ICE range as well but the short fill up times allow people to ignore them).

Range anxiety varies by the individual (and what they are used to). Some people with higher range EVs report range anxiety when their remaining range drops to 50 miles. A used LEAF may not have that range (under some conditions) even when fully charged. If you don;t want to plan your route and other trip details, but just stop to refuel when you think it is time - an EV is not for you.

EVs have many advantages, but most that drive them do not put the environmental aspect at the top of their list. Performance, convenience, reduced fuel and maintenance costs are some that are most frequently mentioned.

I disagree with that. First, EV's as they are now have their own eco-system, you become a car monitor and thats not how I see a solution going forward. To a tech person they always mention habit changing because they love the gadget part of EV's and buy into the pattern change but again, not the solution. The R1T specifically, range for city and mall-roving is different then off roading. I have to laugh a little, I find it amazing how EV people think they're the first to have range anxiety.......you ever drive a 4x4 off road......even more so, drive one off road back in the 80's and 90's?! Range anxiety......its been around longer than you might believe.

Second, Having something thats useful as a truck and has range without significant pattern changing is how you sell more EV trucks and open minds......then sell eco. People have their own version why they want a Rivian and I'm here because I like how they're structuring this vehicle differently. I can see the usefulness with all the added eco benefits at the end WITHOUT a major pattern change to using a truck for hauling, off roading and towing. 400+ mile range......very important to a truck/off road person.

One last point. Every friend that I know that has an EV puts the environmental part at the top of the reasons to change to EV. DucRider, maybe you drive an EV to have one of the fastest straight line vehicle and performance is important to you but thats different then what my circle of friends talk about. Not saying it's wrong and I hope my comments are not looked at as harsh, its not my intent. I do appreciate the feedback.

 

[ajdelange]

As for other reservations, I need a 400+ milage range as I plan to use this R1T as a truck.

Trucks don't need longer range. In fact often shorter range is quite adequate. There are several electric trucks/vans in the works now that have ranges of around 200 mi. These are intended to be used in applications like mail delivery, Amazon deliveries i.e. the "last mile".

Its got to tow, haul and go off road otherwise I'd go buy a regular pickup.

You need to look at your anticipated use. Are you trailering a Bobcat to a worksite 150 miles away every day? An R1T isn't going to work for that. Are you toting a couple of tool boxes to multiple job sites within a few miles of one another? Then it will. Is charging at home going to work for you or do you need to charge on the road. This makes a big difference as a Rivian replacing 70% of a full charge at home will take about 13 hours. At a full bore fast charger that starts to taper at 40% it will take about 33 minutes. Thirteen hours is a long time but if your investment is only the 10 sec. it takes to plug in when you get home at night and the 10 sec it takes to unplug in the morning it doesn't matter. The rest of the 13 hours are yours. Conversely if you have to do it at a fast charger the 33 minutes is not that many minutes but they aren't yours. You have to sit there and twiddle your thumbs.

But perhaps you don't have 13 hrs at home. You should try to figure out how much charge you will need in your daily use. The truck will consume about .450 kWh/mi in unburdened driving. If you need to do 100 miles per day then you will use nominally 1/4 of the battery (25%) per day and you will need to replace that each evening. The RIT will have a 180 kW pack and thus 1% of it is 1.8 kWh. The truck's charger will add energy to the battery at about 10 kW so that's 1.8/10 = .18 hour per percent. Thus adding 25% will take 4.5 hours. That's should not be a problem. But if you are towing a trailer you can expect the battery usage for that 100 miles to double or triple and the charging time will do so too. Thus you might need 9 or even 13 hours at home. Off roading is going to increase consumption too.

I've never imagined spending close to $70k on a pickup let alone any vehicle.

This is the line that really caught my attention. The R1T is not a truck for a real cowboy. It is a truck for an urban cowboy. It is not marketed to a working plumber, electrician, carpenter... for hauling his tools to and from a worksite. It is marketed to an up and coming junior partner in a law firm who wants to take his brie and sautern to his investment parcel in the countryside in a style that will impress his girlfriend. You are paying big bucks for the luxury aspects of this truck that match its intended customer base. There are other electric trucks coming along that might be a better match to your requirements.

slots right into someones life with little change in patterns (gas stops, basic driving without range anxiety etc)... environmental choice...

I think environmental choice is the last thing on most buyers minds. As to changes in life patters: well you don't go to gas stations any more for fuel or oil changes. Other than that I think you will be amazed at how little change switching to electric entails. At this point range anxiety is a little silly as you will see when you start driving a BEV and so I suppose it takes some adaptation time to get past that. Once you do there's not much different.

I'm sure the configurator once up will answer a lot of questions. as you've read, range and price being my big issues. In the end, I'm hoping it will be a badass useful truck/SUV with the plus side of being EV and helping out the planet. Time as they say, will tell.

I doubt the configurator will do much to resolve your concerns. From what I gather I think you would probably be better off looking at a CT. More battery and cheaper.

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