Rivian full self-driving

[TexasBob]

There is 0% chance either Lucid or Rivian is in a leadership position by 2028. Lucid's ADAS system today is like 6-years behind current tech and Rivian is just now getting to the level of performance Ford/GM achieved in late-2022. They aren't getting there just by brute forcing with better silicon.

I agree that Lucid has zero chance to develop something on its own. Lucid vehicles with NVIDIA hardware and Nuro software, OTOH, has a proven track record and a system that is globally competitive. I will note that Nuro has been - for years - doing something Tesla is still not able to do: run completely autonomous L4 vehicles on public roads. Whether or not they bring this autonomy suite to the Earth and the consumer version of Gravity remains to be seen, but the Lucid robotaxi has all the right elements to be real and successful for Uber.

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[Rade]

I think Rivians UHF function will evolve... slowly.

I actually used it the other day to drive from our home to Providence RI. I was impressed that when we came to the Interstate interchange, i just signaled to move from the middle lane to the left lane going into the exit ramp from I-195 to I-95S and it just did it and maintained control all the way through the interchange. I did keep a hand poised at the bottom of the steering wheel just in case, but when all was said and done, I did not have to intervene much. And unlike the Tesla FSD, neither of us feared for our lives in the process of taking the exit.

UHF is... acceptably stable, but sometimes, it does "ping-pong" when trying to keep in lane. The other thing I have not been able to figure out is how to adjust the distance between vehicles. The right scroll wheel used to adjust the distance for the ACC, but no more.

 

[Weck]

There is 0% chance either Lucid or Rivian is in a leadership position by 2028. Lucid's ADAS system today is like 6-years behind current tech and Rivian is just now getting to the level of performance Ford/GM achieved in late-2022. They aren't getting there just by brute forcing with better silicon.

Both Ford and GM systems remain mapped roads only. Universal Hands Free is available anywhere it thinks it sees road lines. To me, that's a pretty significant difference in capability.

 

[Weck]

I think Rivians UHF function will evolve... slowly.

I actually used it the other day to drive from our home to Providence RI. I was impressed that when we came to the Interstate interchange, i just signaled to move from the middle lane to the left lane going into the exit ramp from I-195 to I-95S and it just did it and maintained control all the way through the interchange. I did keep a hand poised at the bottom of the steering wheel just in case, but when all was said and done, I did not have to intervene much. And unlike the Tesla FSD, neither of us feared for our lives in the process of taking the exit.

UHF is... acceptably stable, but sometimes, it does "ping-pong" when trying to keep in lane. The other thing I have not been able to figure out is how to adjust the distance between vehicles. The right scroll wheel used to adjust the distance for the ACC, but no more.

I've had pretty much the same experience with UHF, very smooth on mapped roads, tends to ping pong on unmapped rural roads and gets confused by turn lanes sometimes.

Re following distance via scroll, that's now the left/right buttons for mild/medium/spicy. Thumbwheel does speed.... It was in the release notes for the update.

 

[Mountain Life]

I don't see Rivian getting to FSD on their own. And by FSD I mean they take responsibility for any and all accidents while the system is engaged. This is a really, really hard problem. Just look at the resources other companies have dumped into it (and still aren't there). I personally think the better play is to focus on the cars. Once FSD is real, buy it from someone else and license it to those that want it.

 

[ATLRivvy]

Both Ford and GM systems remain mapped roads only. Universal Hands Free is available anywhere it thinks it sees road lines. To me, that's a pretty significant difference in capability.

Hands-off is mapped roads only, adaptive cruise/lane keep works everywhere. Rivian doesn't detect stop-signs or red lights, doesnt navigate and isnt very good in stop-and-go traffic so even if it technically works off-highway it doesnt have much practical utility. Ford Bluecruise still performs better on highway in my experience - more stable and with more predictable behavior.

 

[Weck]

Hands-off is mapped roads only, adaptive cruise/lane keep works everywhere. Rivian doesn't detect stop-signs or red lights, doesnt navigate and isnt very good in stop-and-go traffic so even if it technically works off-highway it doesnt have much practical utility. Ford Bluecruise still performs better on highway in my experience - more stable and with more predictable behavior.

Are you saying supercruise and bluecruse does all that?

I've used UHF several hundred miles already and it works well for my purposes.

It does also detect stoplights and displays a warning, it just doesn't react to them yet. If you have a lead car, you don't have to touch anything in city driving. It even handles cut ins pretty damn well in my experience. They're getting there pretty quickly.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

UHF was acting shitty for me today. It had the little hands sign that tells you it's available, but when I activated it, the blue hands weren't there, even though it said UHF active when I turned it on. Then it yelled at me for not keeping my hands on the wheel. IDK what the problem was.

 

[ATLRivvy]

Are you saying supercruise and bluecruse does all that?

I've used UHF several hundred miles already and it works well for my purposes.

It does also detect stoplights and displays a warning, it just doesn't react to them yet. If you have a lead car, you don't have to touch anything in city driving. It even handles cut ins pretty damn well in my experience. They're getting there pretty quickly.

No, I’m saying they don’t do those things either but I find their core highway functionality more reliable, more predictable and smoother and therefore still better despite being 3+ years stale.

I personally don’t find any of the non-Tesla systems usable off-highway. Even the Tesla FSD system I don’t find to be great in current form.

 

[CharonPDX]

I always found the claim "humans do it with just vision" dubious.

Yes, we use vision. But we also use an understanding of the world and of other drivers that no machine will ever truly have.

And our vision is "on a pivot". We can move our "camera" around. Sure, fixed-position cameras covering 360° are good, but when a bit of mud gets sprayed onto a side camera, the camera is now blocked. A bit of mud blocks even a decent-size patch of a side-window, the driver can move their head to see through a clear spot. A big bug splats on the position of the front camera, so gooey that the windshield wiper, even with washer fluid, doesn't clean it sufficiently? Well, now camera-based driver assist is down. (This happened to me 2 miles onto the freeway on a 150 mile stretch that I *REALLY* wanted to use driver assistance. I ended up taking a truck stop exit 15 miles later to clean the windshield.) As the driver, if a nasty bug splat blocks a section of windshield, I can still drive just fine.

Most camera-based driver assistance systems have pretty major "single points of failure" that simply won't fly with an L4/L5 system. You can't have a car completely disable because a big bug splatted.

Humans are also really good at processing visual information in a "busy scene" (blizzard, super-heavy rainstorm, etc,) that no current camera-based system can handle at all.

 

[VandalSibs]

Yes, we use vision. But we also use an understanding of the world and of other drivers that no machine will ever truly have.

There is also the sense of kinesthesia - of knowing where our limbs and body are in relation to each other and the world... We still have some semblance of this, even when operating big vehicles. It's had to incorporate with vision-only systems.

 

[Rade]

Re following distance via scroll, that's now the left/right buttons for mild/medium/spicy. Thumbwheel does speed.... It was in the release notes for the update.

I will look again - I see the mild/medium/spicy, but the thumbwheel does nothing. It might require a hard reboot.

Thanks,
Rade

 

[RedCanyon]

I'm 58, and I don't see L5 taking place in my lifetime, I think people forget that driving on a nice sunny day with clearly marked lanes are easy. But when it's pouring rain, or you have snow covered roads that make lane lines invisible, I don't see this happening. To me, level 5 is any road in any condition, and to truly achieve that, you have to have a system integrated between vehicles, roads and signage/signals that all talk to each other so that vehicles now where it is in the road, where stop signs signals are located, their status, vehicles in front/behind all communicating in real time. Once that is achieved, then a car can drive anywhere in any condition, but that would require a massive amount of $$ in infrastructure everywhere. I can see them doing that in downtown areas, but not everywhere....but I could be wrong...vision doesn't cut it in severe weather conditions, and lidar doesn't tell you if you are in your lane or over the line.

Then of course, there's road construction, which will throw another wrench into the works.

Go check out the folks posting Tesla's driving around in the snow this past weekend. FSD going from driveway to parking lot via ice/snow covered roads with no markings visible, and traffic obstacles everywhere... and making it with no issues. Sometimes to the astonishment of the rider. Seems like it is here to me.

 

[ebarke]

Go check out the folks posting Tesla's driving around in the snow this past weekend. FSD going from driveway to parking lot via ice/snow covered roads with no markings visible, and traffic obstacles everywhere... and making it with no issues. Sometimes to the astonishment of the rider. Seems like it is here to me.

That would be pretty impressive, do you have a link? Were the rides during a snow, or after? I just think it's incredibly hard to drive during a snow storm, I just wouldn't trust my car to do it for me...at least not yet. Would love that ability to sit in the back seat while my car drove me around.

 

[RedCanyon]

This isn't the original one I saw yesterday but is a pretty good example:

.... actually this is the one I originally saw. Ice covered roads... crazy:

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