Rivian now charging $.68 per kwh

[Matt D.]

As Tesla Supercharger rates are now much more competitively priced compared to RAN stations, I was looking at the Tesla monthly membership for an upcoming road trip in 3 weeks. I also have a shorter trip this Saturday where I can use a Supercharger to get back home. If I join the membership now, will that cover both trips? The Tesla website says that membership “renews at the beginning of the month”. I don’t want to have to pay 2 monthly fees.

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[captainjp]

Sure, they do. What the hell does efficiency have to do with the cost of energy? None.
A motorcycle pays the same price for gasoline as an ICE car, an ICE truck, etc. By your very faulty reasoning, say a Toyota Prius should pay a lot more for gasoline as an ICE SUV does. Or a motorcycle. Guess what, it does not!!

Lol

 

[captainjp]

You really think a Prius getting 50mpg pays the same price for gas to travel 100miles as a truck getting 10mpg? At this point, I am convinced you are simply saying stupid things on purpose to elicit comments.

I think he actually believes the shit he’s spewing. Lol

 

[shap]

As Tesla Supercharger rates are now much more competitively priced compared to RAN stations, I was looking at the Tesla monthly membership for an upcoming road trip in 3 weeks. I also have a shorter trip this Saturday where I can use a Supercharger to get back home. If I join the membership now, will that cover both trips? The Tesla website says that membership “renews at the beginning of the month”. I don’t want to have to pay 2 monthly fees.

Begging of the month meaning 1 months after you started the membership. So you have 28-32 days after you pay a membership to continue to use it

 

[Riviot]

Begging of the month meaning 1 months after you started the membership. So you have 28-32 days after you pay a membership to continue to use it

How long is a Martian month?

 

[NeedSumCoffee]

I think he actually believes the shit he’s spewing. Lol

I just find it hard to believe anyone could genuinely be that clueless. Most 16yr olds getting their first car learn within a few months that efficiency plays a very large role in the cost of gas. Yet this dude is probably 40yrs old and is claiming motorcycles pay the same each month for gas as a truck does.

 

[Zorg]

I think he actually believes the shit he’s spewing. Lol

That's the scary part

 

[Erik+]

The arguments here on both sides are hilarious. Some definitely need a physics 101 refresher.

Why are people surprised that gasoline may be cheaper than L3 charging? You have to look at where both energy supplies are sourced from as well. How many of the DC chargers are using renewables to generate their energy and how many are using gas or coal fired power plants to supply that energy. Similarly, I could heat my house by burning coal the way some people across the country still do, much cheaper than gas, and far cheaper than renewably sourced energy options. There is always a premium to pay for sustainable measures, or at least until the supply/demand curves change, but I doubt those either operating DC charging stations, or using them really care about where the energy comes from. They only care about the price regardless of whether they drive an EV or not.

 

[shap]

How long is a Martian month?

Not long:

 

[shap]

The arguments here on both sides are hilarious. Some definitely need a physics 101 refresher.

Why are people surprised that gasoline may be cheaper than L3 charging? You have to look at where both energy supplies are sourced from as well. How many of the DC chargers are using renewables to generate their energy and how many are using gas or coal fired power plants to supply that energy. Similarly, I could heat my house by burning coal the way some people across the country still do, much cheaper than gas, and far cheaper than renewably sourced energy options. There is always a premium to pay for sustainable measures, or at least until the supply/demand curves change, but I doubt those either operating DC charging stations, or using them really care about where the energy comes from. They only care about the price regardless of whether they drive an EV or not.

100%!

The L3 price is function of many variables, including energy price, distribution, cabinet , maintenance, etc.

The point I guess that in many/most of the cases, EV road-tripping will be more expensive than gas, unless you get charging for free.

Based on what I see, and based on latest decline in EV sales, Nicola bankruptcy, political climate, etc. we may see a low in EV adoption in upcoming years.

Also, for these who say let stop fossil fuel subsidiaries, I have bad news - if we do this, the inflation will be through the roof and millions of people will die as will not be able to heat their homes. It is not about gasoline only. This is not going to happen, defensively not under current administration.

 

[NeedSumCoffee]

The arguments here on both sides are hilarious. Some definitely need a physics 101 refresher.

Why are people surprised that gasoline may be cheaper than L3 charging? You have to look at where both energy supplies are sourced from as well. How many of the DC chargers are using renewables to generate their energy and how many are using gas or coal fired power plants to supply that energy. Similarly, I could heat my house by burning coal the way some people across the country still do, much cheaper than gas, and far cheaper than renewably sourced energy options. There is always a premium to pay for sustainable measures, or at least until the supply/demand curves change, but I doubt those either operating DC charging stations, or using them really care about where the energy comes from. They only care about the price regardless of whether they drive an EV or not.

I dont think anyone at all is surprised that L3 charging can cost as much or more than gas. It is generally pretty well understood by EV owners that any gas savings comes from cheap home charging and that public L3 charging carries a premium cost.

Most of the debate in this threads is more related to ridiculous statements made by a small number of clueless people... like L3 charging is equivalent to $22/gal in gas, or that that ICE engines are 100% efficient with no losses, or that efficiency has no impact on the fuel costs.

 

[shap]

I dont think anyone at all is surprised that L3 charging can cost as much or more than gas. It is generally pretty well understood by EV owners that any gas savings comes from cheap home charging and that public L3 charging carries a premium cost.

Most of the debate in this threads is more related to ridiculous statements made by a small number of clueless people... like L3 charging is equivalent to $22/gal in gas, or that that ICE engines are 100% efficient with no losses, or that efficiency has no impact on the fuel costs.

One thing to add - L3 price is a problem for roadtrips and people who lives in apartment complexes w/o L2 charging option. Buying EV for these folks make no sense.

 

[NeedSumCoffee]

At 16c a KWh (typical home rates), that's equivalent to ~$5 a gallon yet it's irrelevant.

Point is based on current costs, DCFC will remain expensive for the time being, Nevi funds or not. The only ways that costs can go down are:
- higher utilization rates
- lower demand charges (good luck with that)
- adding a convenience store next to DCFC to subsidize charging costs
- lower DCFC install costs (see Tesla)

That isn't remotely accurate. It also makes no sense. If typical home electricity rates were equivalent to $5/gas, not one single person would ever have saved money charging EVs at home.

If your EV gets 3 mi/kWhr and electricity is $0.15/kWhr, then it is costing you $0.05/mi to drive. Super easy math (0.15/3).
If your ICE gets 20 mi/gal and gas is $1/gal, then it is costing you $0.05/mi to drive. Still super easy math (1/20).

So that means $0.15/kWhr home charging is equal to $1/gal in gas (for an EV at 3mi/kWhr and ICE at 20mpg).

$5/gal is equivalent to $0.75/kWhr for same efficiencies above.

 

[Zorg]

That isn't remotely accurate.

If your EV gets 3 mi/kWhr and electricity is $0.15/kWhr, then it is costing you $0.05/mi to drive. Super easy math (0.15/3).
If your ICE gets 20 mi/gal and gas is $1/gal, then it is costing you $0.05/mi to drive. Still super easy math (1/20).

So that means $0.15/kWhr home charging is equal to $1/gal in gas (for an EV at 3mi/kWhr and ICE at 20mpg).

$5/gal is equivalent to $0.75/kWhr for same efficiencies above.

Your math is right but that wasn't my point. The point was that as a unit of energy (KWh), home electricity is priced higher than a gallon of gas worth of energy (33.7KWh).

Yes, EV strong suit is the efficiency.

 

[NeedSumCoffee]

Your math is right but that wasn't my point. The point was that as a unit of energy (KWh), home electricity is priced higher than a gallon of gas worth of energy (33.7KWh).

Yes, EV strong suit is the efficiency.

Your point still makes absolutely no sense at all. You cannot simply ignore efficiencies, that isn't how the world works. The chemical potential energy in gas does not move a car, it simply sits there in a fuel tank. Gasoline has to be burned and converted to thermal energy, then converted again to mechanical energy, and then it eventually moves a car. Approximately 80% of that 33.7kWhr of energy stored in gas is lost in all those various energy conversions. Where as, in an EV only about 10% of the stored energy is lost in the process of converting to mechanical energy to turn the wheels.

You just said my math is right, but my math very clearly shows that home electricity is significantly cheaper than a gallon of gas.

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