RJ Demonstrates Autonomous Hands-Free Driving Aids

[pamalabama]

Sure, but Rivian is steadily closing that gap. Also, having gross profit while the company is scaling is very impressive. Give credit where it’s due.
However you want to spin it, Rivian is set up to be successful. I commend Tesla for being successful and blazing the trail, but they can be the only game in town for so long. Unfortunately, the company is probably the most-despised car manufacturer right now. That’s a recipe for disaster. Not only does the coal-rolling right hate them, but also the left is hating on them as well. Tesla can make vehicles at a cost of $10, but that won’t make a lick of difference if nobody wants to buy it.

how is that impressive when tesla scaled and also had gross profit the whole time? Gross profit is on the cars only. What does that have to do with rivian scaling?

And that gross profit is with energy credits and yearly sales on connect+ subscriptions. Monkey math if you ask me

Where is that big charging network that rivian promised?

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[captainjp]

how is that impressive when tesla scaled and also had gross profit the whole time? Gross profit is on the cars only. What does that have to do with rivian scaling?

And that gross profit is with energy credits and yearly sales on connect+ subscriptions. Monkey math if you ask me

Where is that big charging network that rivian promised?

Nope. Lol

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/31/investing/tesla-profitability

 

[Sgt Beavis]

Right now, I still wouldn’t put my family’s safety in the hands of any self driving tech. On top of that, I love driving and I REALLY love driving my Rivian. I’ve only used the self driving a couple of times to see how the software has progressed.

That said, in the long term, I really want this to work. We’re all getting older and one of these days we’ll need someone, or some thing, to get us to doctor appointments or just going to the grocery. Self driving means more independence as we age. We can’t all be my Grandma, who was able to drive up until a month before her passing at the age of 98.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

you're missing the point. Rivian sells vehicles at a loss.

Tesla sells vehicles at a gross profit since early model S days.

The model Y refresh costs less than $35K to manufacture. Rivian wishes they could make R2 for that price.

Even if R2 comes for $45K they can't match the base model Y range of 345 miles when your car is a box shape with possibly 25% worse efficiency

The two most expensive components in a car are probably the seats and the battery pack.

No, Rivian does not sell vehicles at a loss. This misunderstands the "loss per vehicle sold" metric. Rivian makes a profit on every vehicle they sell, but their overheads, like service centers and factory buildouts, make their expenditures higher than the PROFIT they make off their vehicles. Rivian has been gross margin positive on their vehicles since 4th quarter last year.

If you're going to talk at least be accurate.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

how is that impressive when tesla scaled and also had gross profit the whole time? Gross profit is on the cars only. What does that have to do with rivian scaling?

And that gross profit is with energy credits and yearly sales on connect+ subscriptions. Monkey math if you ask me

Where is that big charging network that rivian promised?

This reply shows you know next to nothing about business.

 

[Zoidz]

Rivian's system is stupidly designed for what they are doing. it's like they didn't talk to anyone. If you have a lot of overlapping cameras (like rivian does) you do not need corner radars because you can triangulate position based on overlapping views.

Once again, talking out your ass.

It's well documented and well known that many Tesla personnel were hired by Rivian. Rivian didn't talk to anyone? Rivian HIRED them, sheesh. Telsa sued Rivian over it.

Radar performs more quickly with less compute, and performs better for long range and poor visibility conditions.

You still have not provided any supporting documentation of any your claims in this thread.

 

[captainjp]

The reason profit margins are high is they know how to build a car. Materials cost (i.e. vegan leather) is a very small part of overall cost of a car.

The reason rivian can't make money is they slapped 2 ADAS systems, 11 cameras, 2 self driving computers (mobileye and nvidia), poorly designed seats by hyundai, etc.

Rivian's system is stupidly designed for what they are doing. it's like they didn't talk to anyone. If you have a lot of overlapping cameras (like rivian does) you do not need corner radars because you can triangulate position based on overlapping views.

Have that many components in your car and of course it won't be cheap

And if you're going to argue safety, rivian is far behind because many modern cars in 2023+ are integrating solid state lidar units

Low resolution imaging radar is useless because the only fundamental reason to use a sensor other than cameras is to classify objects from far away, i.e. you can classify a pedestrian at night from 300+ meters away

Triangulation has nothing to do with overlap. Triangulation is accomplished by measuring range and bearing from three unique positions.

 

[godfodder0901]

Triangulation has nothing to do with overlap. Triangulation is accomplished by measuring range and bearing from three unique positions.

You actually don't need range, just bearing. I'm a retired submariner who ran multiple Navigation Departments and we would take visual fixes on the surface by taking three bearings to NAVAIDS. And we don't really need three. One range and one bearing OR two bearings with enough offset works great.

 

[Zoidz]

All you have to do is cover up your camera in the center. The single camera that belongs to mobileye. If driving does not work then rivian is lying.

This proves very little regarding which components are doing which specific functions, and most certainly cannot be used as a claim that Rivian is lying. That's absurd.

In automation systems, it is common and usually a best practice to limit or disable functionality of the entire system if a single critical component fails. It's what we do when programming real time systems that involve life safety or high asset value.

Unless you can produce the Rivian code to prove otherwise, it's entirely possible, and likely, that convering any front facing sensor will generate a system warning or system error and disable or limit broad functionality. In fact, we know this fact for certain regarding the front facing radar. By evidence (similar to evidence-based medicine practices), common sense and logic tells us the same would apply to any front facing camera regardless of what functionality it is providing, or not providing.

 

[captainjp]

You actually don't need range, just bearing. I'm a retired submariner who ran multiple Navigation Departments and we would take visual fixes on the surface by taking three bearings to NAVAIDS. And we don't really need three. One range and one bearing OR two bearings with enough offset works great.

You actually don't need range, just bearing. I'm a retired submariner who ran multiple Navigation Departments and we would take visual fixes on the surface by taking three bearings to NAVAIDS. And we don't really need three. One range and one bearing OR two bearings with enough offset works great.

true, but not the point. Overlap actually works against a position fix. The further apart the fixes are, the more accurate the calculation.

 

[pamalabama]

This proves very little regarding which components are doing which specific functions, and most certainly cannot be used as a claim that Rivian is lying. That's absurd.

In automation systems, it is common and usually a best practice to limit or disable functionality of the entire system if a single critical component fails. It's what we do when programming real time systems that involve life safety or high asset value.

Unless you can produce the Rivian code to prove otherwise, it's entirely possible, and likely, that convering any front facing sensor will generate a system warning or system error and disable or limit broad functionality. In fact, we know this fact for certain regarding the front facing radar. By evidence (similar to evidence-based medicine practices), common sense and logic tells us the same would apply to any front facing camera regardless of what functionality it is providing, or not providing.

If that's the case then why would rivian ONLY fail if the mobileye camera is covered and nothing else?

Especially since the mobileye system is end of line, it would not make sense that rivian's OWN self driving implementation would ever use the mobileye camera given it would be depreciated soon enough.

I don't know why people can't accept that rivian is not ready to deploy their own ADAS system yet

 

[pamalabama]

Nope. Lol

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/31/investing/tesla-profitability

you're conflating net profit with gross profit. Something rivian doesn't have.

The fact that rivian is using energy credits to achieve gross profit is sad

 

[captainjp]

you're conflating net profit with gross profit. Something rivian doesn't have.

The fact that rivian is using energy credits to achieve gross profit is sad

Sorry bruh, but if you read the article you’ll see that Tesla is guilty of the same offense

 

[pamalabama]

Sorry bruh, but if you read the article you’ll see that Tesla is guilty of the same offense

I read the article. Nowhere does it say tesla was not gross profitable.

"Its automotive gross profit, which compares total revenue from its car business to expenses directly associated with the building the cars, was $5.4 billion, even excluding the regulatory credits sales revenue."

Tesla always had pretty hefty gross profit. They just were scaling at a different level compared to rivian

 

[Riviot]

You actually don't need range, just bearing. I'm a retired submariner who ran multiple Navigation Departments and we would take visual fixes on the surface by taking three bearings to NAVAIDS. And we don't really need three. One range and one bearing OR two bearings with enough offset works great.

Former bearing taker here ??‍, the Doc and I had the best Special Sea Detail billets. I loved plotting! Indeed you only need 2 fixed locations, You are the third position in the triangle.

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