RJ Demonstrates Autonomous Hands-Free Driving Aids

[CharonPDX]

This is just for G2 right? This isnt coming to G1?

Wassym did say they would be adding features to Gen 1, but that the "full autonomy" features originally promised for Gen 1 wouldn't be coming; that Gen 2 will always have far more capability than Gen 1.

Which is annoying, since we don't even have the things that were listed on the website the day I took delivery (and not even "coming soon" like hands-free, they were listed as if they were already present, like Trailer Assist.)

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[captainjp]

I read the article. Nowhere does it say tesla was not gross profitable.

"Its automotive gross profit, which compares total revenue from its car business to expenses directly associated with the building the cars, was $5.4 billion, even excluding the regulatory credits sales revenue."

Tesla always had pretty hefty gross profit. They just were scaling at a different level compared to rivian

Apparently you did not read it thoroughly enough.
First two paragraphs quoted:

“Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can’t, the automakers have to buy regulatory creditsfrom another automaker that meets those requirements – such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.

It’s a lucrative business for Tesla – bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million – meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.”

 

[pamalabama]

Apparently you did not read it thoroughly enough.
First two paragraphs quoted:

“Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can’t, the automakers have to buy regulatory creditsfrom another automaker that meets those requirements – such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.

It’s a lucrative business for Tesla – bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million – meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.”

NET INCOME

Tesla invests a lot into charging network, autonomy, etc.

 

[captainjp]

NET INCOME

Tesla invests a lot into charging network, autonomy, etc.

?
This guy…

 

[pamalabama]

?
This guy…

Rivian net income for 2024 was -4.7 billion

Tesla net income in 2021 was 721 million while expanding and growing model Y sales and manufacturing|

In 2021 tesla's gross profit was crazy high because they were selling realistic cars for very high prices.

 

[dbalcar]

comma.ai will beat Rivian to this! The current highway "assist" totally doesn't work here in the NE. In my testing in my R1S Gen1 there is around 20miles in the entire state of NH where it will kinda work. and of course you have to get a Gen2/3 to have any of this from them. They need to offer like Tesla did with the early FSD computers an upgrade. I got it in my 2017 model s to the hw3 platform. I think one of the biggest challenges is govt regulations getting in the way of progress. Oh and what happened to "Tank Turn" I just saw a video from Rich Rebuilds showing some of the Chinese cars that have it. One last note on this. All of the cars need to be open platforms as we have seen with Fisker going under is that all of those cars are not getting updates!

 

[mpshizzle]

They need to offer like Tesla did with the early FSD computers an upgrade.

Unfortunately, unlike Tesla, it isn't as simple as upgrading the Autonomy computer/cameras.

Gen 2 also has an entirely different electrical architecture and completely different wiring. In order to get the new autonomy computer in gen 1 you'd have to swap ALL of the wiring and almost every ECU in the entire vehicle.

 

[Zoidz]

Oh and what happened to "Tank Turn" I just saw a video from Rich Rebuilds showing some of the Chinese cars that have it.

I think Rivian correctly recognizes that Tank Turn will be an accident waiting to happen in the hands of most Rivian owners, and therefore a corporate liability, and rarely used for it's intended purpose of tight trail turns. It's destructiveness to terrain is also against Rivian's Ethos of "saving the world for the future". Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool and fun, but Rivian has made the right decision to not release it.

 

[captainjp]

I think Rivian correctly recognizes that Tank Turn will be an accident waiting to happen in the hands of most Rivian owners, and therefore a corporate liability, and rarely used for it's intended purpose of tight trail turns. It's destructiveness to terrain is also against Rivian's Ethos of "saving the world for the future". Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool and fun, but Rivian has made the right decision to not release it.

It’s a gimmick and not practical.

 

[dbalcar]

It’s a gimmick and not practical.

Yeah for sure, I just hate companies that show off a feature and either don't do it or remove it after the fact. I wonder if GM would take away the crab walk feature? Not useful imho as well but its a feature to get people into the showrooms. For example the PS3 said to run linux and then they took it away or the holiday features like the lights and sounds. Where they only work for a set time. I would like to use some of those sounds all year long. Winter is many months up here in the NE. I know its just a novelty but still like to cool features.
Just my .02

 

[dbalcar]

Unfortunately, unlike Tesla, it isn't as simple as upgrading the Autonomy computer/cameras.

Gen 2 also has an entirely different electrical architecture and completely different wiring. In order to get the new autonomy computer in gen 1 you'd have to swap ALL of the wiring and almost every ECU in the entire vehicle.

I know when Tesla did my Model S it was an all day job and they replace all of the cameras and the ECU's, I would think that if Tesla could do it then Rivian could as well. I know it would not be the most fun to do. But it would be nice to have the option.

 

[mpshizzle]

I know when Tesla did my Model S it was an all day job and they replace all of the cameras and the ECU's, I would think that if Tesla could do it then Rivian could as well. I know it would not be the most fun to do. But it would be nice to have the option.

Right, it was possible because Tesla kept the same electrical architecture. It was doable because it was just swapping a computer and cameras, but the vehicle wiring was the same. I would certainly take a long time, because you have to take apart the dash and replace cameras around the vehicle, but very doable.

Rivian has released a lot of content and gone very in-depth about the fundamental electrical changes that went into gen 2. They removed 1.6 miles of wiring, reduced the number of ECUs and relocated a lot of things. When I said "you'd have to re-wire the entire vehicle" I wasn't kidding. You'd have to do that quite literally. The gen 1 wiring doesn't even have anywhere the new autonomy computer could possibly plug into. This on top of the fact that you also have to replace some body panels, because the camera wiring lands in different places with the new wiring harness.

Gen 1 was built with only a mobile eye autonomy system (3rd party off the shelf brand).

All of this is very well documented from Rivian itself. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but IF it is possible, it would require disassembling almost every body panel and the entire interior, swapping every wiring harness, and it would cost tens of thousands minimum. Comma AI is your best bet with Gen 1, by a long shot. As of right now, comma can't match Gen 2 autonomy, since it doesn't have access to any vehicle radars or sensors, but those who have it say it's far better than the built in gen 1 system. Plus it works on non-mapped roads!

 

[dbalcar]

Right, it was possible because Tesla kept the same electrical architecture. It was doable because it was just swapping a computer and cameras, but the vehicle wiring was the same. I would certainly take a long time, because you have to take apart the dash and replace cameras around the vehicle, but very doable.

Rivian has released a lot of content and gone very in-depth about the fundamental electrical changes that went into gen 2. They removed 1.6 miles of wiring, reduced the number of ECUs and relocated a lot of things. When I said "you'd have to re-wire the entire vehicle" I wasn't kidding. You'd have to do that quite literally. The gen 1 wiring doesn't even have anywhere the new autonomy computer could possibly plug into. This on top of the fact that you also have to replace some body panels, because the camera wiring lands in different places with the new wiring harness.

Gen 1 was built with only a mobile eye autonomy system (3rd party off the shelf brand).

All of this is very well documented from Rivian itself. So I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but IF it is possible, it would require disassembling almost every body panel and the entire interior, swapping every wiring harness, and it would cost tens of thousands minimum. Comma AI is your best bet with Gen 1, by a long shot. As of right now, comma can't match Gen 2 autonomy, since it doesn't have access to any vehicle radars or sensors, but those who have it say it's far better than the built in gen 1 system. Plus it works on non-mapped roads!

wow Didn't realize that it was that complicated to do. Thanks for this great info. I have a Gen1 R1S and was thinking of getting a Gen2 but I might wait till the R3 is out.

 

[dbalcar]

Sounds good, I am going to look at getting a Comma AI setup and give that a try. I have a Model Y with HW4 and it will take me from my driveway all the way to local supercharger about 6 miles away with no interventions. Not expecting that from the Rivian but it would be nice on long trips to set it let it do its thing.

 

[mpshizzle]

wow Didn't realize that it was that complicated to do. Thanks for this great info. I have a Gen1 R1S and was thinking of getting a Gen2 but I might wait till the R3 is out.

For what it's worth, Rivian has said that they plan to keep a very similar, if not identical autonomy system for the foreseeable future, for R2 and R3. And it would absolutely be in their best interest to do so, because they're doing a lot of data collection and AI training based on R1 Gen 2. If they change the autonomy system for R2 and R3, all of that training and time would be wasted.

Obviously, things can always change, and promises can always be broken, but I would say that they had set themselves up for success in that regard with the new architecture

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