Snow tire chain recommendations?

[zefram47]

Tire chains are a staple of Pacific Northwest winter travel and often non-negotiable if you want to go over the pass.

Do they not have exceptions for 4WD/AWD + 3PMSF tires?

Sponsored

 

[zefram47]

my understanding has been that they’ll close the road before declaring R3 conditions.

as I posited in the other winter tire thread, it seems like the chain requirements presume people don’t have anything close to a winter tire.

That's more or less how it is in Colorado. Their poor excuse for a passenger vehicle chain law doesn't even specify 3PMSF tires...only M+S. Also no checkpoints so people go up in the mountains all the time with thoroughly insufficient tires and get the roads closed. There is a passenger vehicle chain law, but I don't recall it being activated before the roads just get closed.

 

[zefram47]

As for that manual page... It's not the 20s that are the problem, it's that the tires on the 20s are 34" vs the 33" that come stock on the 21s and 22s. I'm kinda shocked that Rivian is claiming insufficient clearance even for cables. As I said in the other thread, I guess that also means there's zero hope of running 35s. I do wonder where the clearance issues are and whether as someone else suggested you could run cables if you were in Off Road / High mode vs Standard.

 

[crashmtb]

Do they not have exceptions for 4WD/AWD + 3PMSF tires?

They sure do

That's more or less how it is in Colorado. Their poor excuse for a passenger vehicle chain law doesn't even specify 3PMSF tires...only M+S. Also no checkpoints so people go up in the mountains all the time with thoroughly insufficient tires and get the roads closed. There is a passenger vehicle chain law, but I don't recall it being activated before the roads just get closed.

California‘s winter tire rules are basically the same.

As for that manual page... It's not the 20s that are the problem, it's that the tires on the 20s are 34" vs the 33" that come stock on the 21s and 22s. I'm kinda shocked that Rivian is claiming insufficient clearance even for cables. As I said in the other thread, I guess that also means there's zero hope of running 35s. I do wonder where the clearance issues are and whether as someone else suggested you could run cables if you were in Off Road / High mode vs Standard.

The “no chains or cables” is probably a safer blanket statement than “only this chain/cable model from this manufacturer made on thursdays will fit without chewing stuff up at full steering lock”.

wonder what the constraints are for max tire size. The aftermarket will figure it out in due course

 

[srwaxalot]

From that link, 4WD vehicles under 10,000 lbs with M+S or mountain/snowflake tires are exempt from "Chains Required" signs as far as actually mounting the snow chains, but you are still required to have chains with you.

Interesting question if chains that don't fit without rubbing would count as having chains with you.

When my dad first moved to Big Bear he drove a 2wd Ranger so he had have chains. Few years laster he upgraded to a F250 4wd on 33s. He would put the chains he bough for the Ranger in his toolbox and just show that he had them with him. No one ever checked the size only that he had them.

 

[chrismc]

Do they not have exceptions for 4WD/AWD + 3PMSF tires?

No. See below for the official rules from https://wsdot.com/travel/real-time/mountainpasses/tiresandchains

From that link, 4WD vehicles under 10,000 lbs with M+S or mountain/snowflake tires are exempt from "Chains Required" signs as far as actually mounting the snow chains, but you are still required to have chains with you.

That is not what it says, they are still required (that is why I called out the “Chains required on all vehicles” section):

4WD/AWD vehicles (under 10,000 pounds) do not need chains installed during "chains required" notices, but drivers still must carry chains with them in case conditions worsen and they're required to install chains during a "chains required on all vehicles" notice.

 

[yizzung]

@crashmtb in California, if you get conditions which warrant R3 then there are explicitly no exceptions, “Requirement 3 (R3): Chains or traction devices are required on all vehicles, no exceptions.”
From https://dot.ca.gov/travel/winter-driving-tips/chain-controls

I have been driving over the Donner Pass on I-80 for 23 winters in a row and have never once seen this invoked, including the time I was stuck in a line of traffic for more than 12 hours with my dog… I have always crossed in an AWD vehicle (e.g. Audi allroad) with just M+S tires and have always been waved through by Caltrans.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I have been driving over the Donner Pass on I-80 for 23 winters in a row and have never once seen this invoked, including the time I was stuck in a line of traffic for more than 12 hours with my dog… I have always crossed in an AWD vehicle (e.g. Audi allroad) with just M+S tires and have always been waved through by Caltrans.

There may be regional differences or even differences based upon who is on duty. I had to show that I had chains with me once over two winters diving into the San Bernardino Mountains. This was in our Land Rover LR3 with AT 3PMS tires. I think that the CHP was pretty strict to save people who live in the mountains from Los Angeles and Orange County drivers who cannot drive safely in the rain and may not even have functioning windshield wipers. This may also be a difference between a region people have to drive through (Donner Pass I-80) versus a region people are optionally driving to (mountain towns).

 

[crashmtb]

I have been driving over the Donner Pass on I-80 for 23 winters in a row and have never once seen this invoked, including the time I was stuck in a line of traffic for more than 12 hours with my dog… I have always crossed in an AWD vehicle (e.g. Audi allroad) with just M+S tires and have always been waved through by Caltrans.

I was so annoyed in November coming over Donner, 75 degrees and sunny.

All I did was overheat my fresh winter tires doing 90mph to keep up with all the Californians presumably fleeing their NV gambling debts. (L.A. driving style seems to be spreading). Zero snow on the road. Even on the way back, there’d been snow but not a hint of it on the highway itself. Not even icy patches in the shade.

 

[srwaxalot]

Just thinking about it. 10 or so years ago CHP made me put chains on my WRX on my way to Big Bear. The officer was either a dick or didn’t know what all wheel drive was because he asked me where the button was to turn it on. Not to long after I gave my chains to a fiend after one of his came off. Think that was the only time I’ve put chains on the WRX.

 

[yizzung]

I was so annoyed in November coming over Donner, 75 degrees and sunny.

All I did was overheat my fresh winter tires doing 90mph to keep up with all the Californians presumably fleeing their NV gambling debts. (L.A. driving style seems to be spreading). Zero snow on the road. Even on the way back, there’d been snow but not a hint of it on the highway itself. Not even icy patches in the shade.

Nah, we were all fleeing forest fire smoke. November is wildfire season now…

 

[crashmtb]

Nah, we were all fleeing forest fire smoke. November is wildfire season now…

As far as I can tell, there is no more fire season, just fire. All the time.

 

[SoCal Rob]

As far as I can tell, there is no more fire season, just fire. All the time.

Sad but true.

 

[Forager]

Most people are missing the point that tire chains are superior traction devices to M+S tires, 3PMSF tires, dedicated winter tires, and AWD/4x4 vehicles with such tires mounted.

Anyone routinely traveling through mountains in the winter would benefit from a pair of true tire chains. Aside from legal requirements, they can really save your bacon.

Jeep Rubicon on chains vs. gnarly off-roaders

 

[yizzung]

Most people are missing the point that tire chains are superior traction devices to M+S tires, 3PMSF tires, dedicated winter tires, and AWD/4x4 vehicles with such tires mounted.

Anyone routinely traveling through mountains in the winter would benefit from a pair of true tire chains. Aside from legal requirements, they can really save your bacon.

Jeep Rubicon on chains vs. gnarly off-roaders

Well the OP didn’t really specify where the favorite winter destination was. If it’s at the top of a hilly muddy snowy off-road trail, then point taken. If it’s cruising on a plowed interstate to Tahoe, the 20” ATs seem sufficient.

Sponsored