Solid-state battery race accelerates

[schlosrat]

As long as SSB can sustain high Kw over the majority of the pack capacity; that will greatly reduce charging times. I'd rather have 300kW charging from 0-80% vs. 500kW for only a little time with a huge taper at 50%

By "sustain high Kw over the majority of the pack capacity", I assume you mean support a faster charge rate as a function of the current SOC. With the battery technology we have now, our best charging rate is when the SOC is within 20-80% or so. Even if an SSB accepts charge at the same rate across its whole range of SOC, that's really only benefiting you slightly when you're in the 80 to 100% range. Do they do this? Honestly, I don't know; but even if they do, it's still only a marginal improvement that's still limited by our existing charging infrastructure to deliver juice.

Update: I asked google "do solid state batteries charge at the same rate regardless of their current state of charge?" and got this reply.

No, solid-state batteries do not charge at the same rate across all states of charge. Like traditional batteries, their charging speed slows down as the battery fills up, typically tapering off significantly past 80% to protect the internal structure and prevent overheating. [1, 2, 3]

Why Charging Speeds Change

• • Electrochemical Resistance: As lithium ions move and pack into the anode, internal resistance rises, which slows down the safe absorption rate. [1, 2]
  • Voltage Limits: As the state of charge increases, the cell voltage rises, requiring the charging system to taper the current to avoid exceeding safe voltage thresholds. [1, 2, 3]
  • Thermal Management: Fast-charging protocols (such as going from 10% to 80% in 10 to 15 minutes) generate heat; chargers deliberately reduce power output near 100% to keep temperatures safe. [1, 2]

Key Charging Characteristics

• • High Initial Rate: They accept very high current densities safely at low-to-mid states of charge because solid electrolytes lack flammable liquids. [1, 2]
  • The Tapering Curve: Charge speed remains high up to about 80% capacity before dropping into a slower trickle charge to top off the final 20%. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

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[emoore]

By "sustain high Kw over the majority of the pack capacity", I assume you mean support a faster charge rate as a function of the current SOC. With the battery technology we have now, our best charging rate is when the SOC is within 20-80% or so. Even if an SSB accepts charge at the same rate across its whole range of SOC, that's really only benefiting you slightly when you're in the 80 to 100% range. Do they do this? Honestly, I don't know; but even if they do, it's still only a marginal improvement that's still limited by our existing charging infrastructure to deliver juice.

Update: I asked google "do solid state batteries charge at the same rate regardless of their current state of charge?" and got this reply.

No, solid-state batteries do not charge at the same rate across all states of charge. Like traditional batteries, their charging speed slows down as the battery fills up, typically tapering off significantly past 80% to protect the internal structure and prevent overheating. [1, 2, 3]

Why Charging Speeds Change

• • Electrochemical Resistance: As lithium ions move and pack into the anode, internal resistance rises, which slows down the safe absorption rate. [1, 2]
  • Voltage Limits: As the state of charge increases, the cell voltage rises, requiring the charging system to taper the current to avoid exceeding safe voltage thresholds. [1, 2, 3]
  • Thermal Management: Fast-charging protocols (such as going from 10% to 80% in 10 to 15 minutes) generate heat; chargers deliberately reduce power output near 100% to keep temperatures safe. [1, 2]

Key Charging Characteristics

• • High Initial Rate: They accept very high current densities safely at low-to-mid states of charge because solid electrolytes lack flammable liquids. [1, 2]
  • The Tapering Curve: Charge speed remains high up to about 80% capacity before dropping into a slower trickle charge to top off the final 20%. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

And that's why I used to 80%. They do taper off but are supposed to hold a high rate a charge deeper into that pack than say Rivian's battery which drops off from the peak of 215kW at like 40% SOC. Holding that to 80% would greatly reduce charging times.

 

[NY_Rob]

Well the whole Donut SSB turned out to be a total fraud/bust.. so that leaves the very, very deep pocket battery producers back in the driver seat for now. Too bad scumbags like Donut exist

 

[mkhuffman]

Well the whole Donut SSB turned out to be a total fraud/bust.. so that leaves the very, very deep pocket battery producers back in the driver seat for now. Too bad scumbags like Donut exist

Yeah. How long can the scam last? Donut seemed viable because it is hard to imagine a scam fooling so many people for years. But that is what they attempted to do. And as of today, does anyone think Donut is anything more than a scam? Anyone?

 

[godfodder0901]

Yeah. How long can the scam last? Donut seemed viable because it is hard to imagine a scam fooling so many people for years. But that is what they attempted to do. And as of today, does anyone think Donut is anything more than a scam? Anyone?

The Donut motor is legit.

 

[NY_Rob]

The Donut motor is legit.

Yes, that is true.

The Donut SS battery however is 100% not a Solid State battery as they claimed. Marco also claimed "it's being mass produced right now by OEM's" which it never was.. and AFAIK, even their own motorcycles are still using their older standard LI battery packs. The Donut SS battery was/is 100% a scam.

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