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Tesla chargers and everyone else

bigsky

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Haven’t heard of any VW or Subaru being able to charge at any v3 superchargers. Only Rivian and Ford.
I was at the Tesla Supercharger in Quincy, WA yesterday. Guess what, an Audi pulled up and started charging. I said the same thing as you, never heard of that, but there it was.
Then I stopped at the Tesla supercharger in Moses Lake, WA. Lo and behold, a Subaru Forester pulled up to the charger. I too thought this is odd, not gonna happen, but sure enough, Subaru was charging away. Not sure what is going on!
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I was at the Tesla Supercharger in Quincy, WA yesterday. Guess what, an Audi pulled up and started charging. I said the same thing as you, never heard of that, but there it was.
Then I stopped at the Tesla supercharger in Moses Lake, WA. Lo and behold, a Subaru Forester pulled up to the charger. I too thought this is odd, not gonna happen, but sure enough, Subaru was charging away. Not sure what is going on!
Those are both magic dock locations so yes ant CCS cars can charge there. Audi and Subaru can’t charge at non magic dock superchargers.
 

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I was at the Tesla Supercharger in Quincy, WA yesterday. Guess what, an Audi pulled up and started charging. I said the same thing as you, never heard of that, but there it was.
Then I stopped at the Tesla supercharger in Moses Lake, WA. Lo and behold, a Subaru Forester pulled up to the charger. I too thought this is odd, not gonna happen, but sure enough, Subaru was charging away. Not sure what is going on!
If you have an adaptor, make sure you have your nav configured correctly to allow stations that require an adaptor. The ones you listed have MagicDock adaptors built in.
 

bigsky

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I don't think I need to configure anything on my Rivian to show Tesla superchargers available to me, do I? have seen navigation display message that I need an adapter.
Yes, locations I mentioned do have the NACS adapter built-in aka Magic Dock.
There is absolutely nothing to configure anywhere other than perhaps telling the Tesla app (or Rivian app which stall I am using. That's it). There cannot be anything to configure to use a NACS adapter because those available today are dumb devices. Passthrough only.

I always use my Tesla app (own Teslas also) to double check what is available for my Rivian.
From the Tesla app Charge my other EV-->map. PIcked one arbitrarily. For each one shown on the map, Tesla app always will tell me if I need an adapter. Example below:

Rivian R1T R1S Tesla chargers and everyone else Screenshot_20240902_142152_Tesla
 
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bigsky

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I don't think I need to configure anything on my Rivian to show Tesla superchargers available to me, do I? have seen navigation display message that I need an adapter.

Yes, locations I mentioned do have the NACS adapter built-in aka Magic Dock.

I always use my Tesla app (own Teslas also) to double check what is available for my Rivian.
From the Tesla app Charge my other EV-->map. PIcked up one arbitrarily. for each one shown on the map, Tesla app always will tell me if I need an adapter. Example below:

Screenshot_20240902_142152_Tesla.jpg
 

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RivianRunner

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Didn’t help that Musk fired the entire supercharger team. I, guessing other companies would have access by now if he didn’t do that.
To be fair, the people who were really moving the infrastructure mission forward are still working in the Supercharger Division, only the deadwood and oil/auto industry plants were fired. The problem is, it's often difficult to tell who is pushing the mission forward and who is trying to throw a wrench in the works. It's a good thing Musk acted so timely, that he discovered the sickness of the team rose up into the leadership positions so soon, and thus needed drastic action, lest Superchargers become as unreliable and unusable as the other charge networks. It's what sets the Supercharger network apart from the rest of the field.

I can only dream of how much better DCFC in this country would be if other charge network companies took their cost-effective growth, useability, performance and reliability as seriously as Tesla does. Sometimes it's necessary to do a 'reset" in order to keep that sickness from creeping in. There are powerful monied interests out there that want charging infrastructure to suck so gas cars will keep selling well, for as long as possible. And they are winning in every other DCFC network.

And to be clear, Tesla has installed more Superchargers in the first half of this year than in any other year (to date at this same mid-point). That's more than all the other DCFC companies combined, and using only about 10-20% or the resources. If the other companies were as good at what they do, and if investment in DCFC'ers remained the same, there would be DCFC'ers everywhere you needed one. And they would work when you needed them. Musk successfully fended off that virus. In business, you can't take your eye off the ball or things tend towards entropy very quickly, especially if there are people actively encouraging that.

It's always better to encourage and celebrate excellence, than it is to accept mediocrity. Otherwise, companies from China will continue to eat our lunch and people will continue to wonder where all the jobs have gone and EV motorists will continue to wonder why there aren't more DCFC'ers where and when you need them.
 

RivianRunner

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I don't think I need to configure anything on my Rivian to show Tesla superchargers available to me, do I? have seen navigation display message that I need an adapter.
Yes, locations I mentioned do have the NACS adapter built-in aka Magic Dock.
There is absolutely nothing to configure anywhere other than perhaps telling the Tesla app (or Rivian app which stall I am using. That's it). There cannot be anything to configure to use a NACS adapter because those available today are dumb devices. Passthrough only.
This is the part that's the responsibility of the Rivian Software Engineering teams. There should be a menu selection so you can configure what kind of chargers show up (ie, have a NACS adapter or not).

I always use my Tesla app (own Teslas also) to double check what is available for my Rivian.
From the Tesla app Charge my other EV-->map. PIcked one arbitrarily. For each one shown on the map, Tesla app always will tell me if I need an adapter. Example below:
That's the part that Tesla Software Engineering teams are responsible for.
 

RivianRunner

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Audis, Subarus, Fords, Rivians can charge at both Tesla superchargers that have a Magic Dock AND at any and all Tesla superchargers that are 250 kW even without Magic Dock. The latter name is just a euphemism for NACS adapter.
"Magic Dock" is not a euphemism, it's an actual descriptor of Superchargers that have built-in CCS adapters, vs. a Supercharger that either requires you have your own CCS adapter for it, or that is not available for EVs with CCS charge ports.


Sure, not all Teslas SCs are NACS-enabled, but the quite a few that Rivians can use is a game changer.

From my Tesla app. selecting "Charge my other EV," then zooming out to the the Wester U.S. to see what is available. These are the Tesla chargers open to NACS.

Screenshot_20240902_140330_Tesla.jpg
Sweet! Let's hope the trend continues! Because without people keeping the driving force behind DCFC infrastructure buildout strong, it will trend towards entropy and die out. We are not yet to the point where profit motive is all it takes to drive DCFC expansion. It's not a given. Because there is still a lot more profit motive in stopping it.
 

RivianRunner

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I'm on my 4th electric vehicle, a new to me 2023 R1T Quad motor. Amazing vehicle, save for a few quirks (which I'm used to being an early adopter in EV tech). I also tried out the H2 market with a Mirai, and honestly after a year with that vehicle I can firmly state that the H2 passenger vehicle market is dead in the water unless the H2 infrastructure issues are addressed.
Yes, it's been apparent since at least 2017 that hydrogen cars were dead in the water. That they were just oil companies attempt to keep their foot in the transport industry with dirty hydrogen. And that even that wasn't going to work. None of this is a surprise, hydrogen is too expensive, even when using dirty hydrogen. The infrastructure costs alone will make anyone's eyes water and call uncle.

Starting in a Fiat 500e, then a Mercedes 300b, then a Tesla Model Y. My journey started with setting expectations at just driving locally and charging at home as the first 2 vehicles had about 100 miles of range. This worked fine as we had a second ICE vehicle for longer trips. When I began using the second EV for an occasional longer commute (50 miles in each direction) I started to hit the challenging issue of destination charging. This was 5 years back and L2 charging stations with the J1772 connection were sparse and reliability iffy at best.

We then moved into the Model Y and quickly completely forgot about the charging hassles either destination or mid trip top offs. We regulary used the Y for trips both long and short, but primarily charge at home.

Going "back" to the Rivian I was abrupty re-introduced to the challenging charing issues with the non-Tesla network in the first 2 weeks while waiting for the account to get transferred and my NACS to J1772 home adapter to arrive. It's crowded, clunky to use, and unreliable. This is the only option for the growing non-tesla EV market (save for Rivian with the sparse RAN network). It's a horrifically bad introduction to an EV for anyone that: 1. Did not start early and set expectations around charging availability and vehicle use. and 2. Has anything close to expectations that an EV work like an ICE around convenience and speed of "refueling" times.
Yep, it's like two different worlds out there, the CCS world and the NACS world. That is why every major carmaker is switching to NACS next year. But even this transition will fail to fix the problem if DCFC network operators keep operating in the same fashion. If they don't get a sense of urgency behind fixing holes in their networks, over-utilization of certain locations, and reliability issues.

IMHO this will meet in the middle once 2 things are solved:

1. Standardization and widespread availability of reliable "L3" high speed travel AND low speed destination charging infrastructure. (We all know this)
2. Clear and standardized advertising of charging rates at both stations AND in apps.

On the other end, ICE drivers mindsets will need to shift around charging time expectations as it does take a little longer than an ICE today. Save for extreme edge cases, how much of an issue is this really? Do we really need 5 minute refueling capability to "match" ICE experiences? I dont know the numbers here, but to me this is a mindset shift that will become less of an issue if the charging issues dissapear.

Standardized price advertising IMHO is very important as this IS something that ICE drivers are keenly aware of when driving. You can easily compare prices between the 2 gas stations across the street from one another and so many apps provide fuel pricing on a map today. It is exceedingly difficult to do this with charging and the pricing can be more than double in some cases! (Rivian RAN network: 35 cents vs. Tesla super charger .70 cents in the same area). This was not impossible, but very difficult to find and compare in apps.
Time of use pricing for DCFC is an important tool to spreading out network load over time which is what leads to being able to expand the network without huge amounts of new capital. What gets put in the ground must pay for itself, and that hard to do if a charger is only utilized during the busiest 20% of the day. By having variable pricing network operators can more fully utilize their infrastructure in a manner that it pays for itself and allows continued expansion without constant inputs of new investment capital. A business that cannot expand on its own merits is not a successful business.

A big wrench was thrown in the buildout of DCFC'ers when network operators made deals with car manufacturers to offer free charging to buyers of new EVs. This encourages people to charge during peak periods at no cost to themselves and greatly reduces the effectiveness of any time of use pricing strategies to spread out the load. It also reduced the incentives for new EV buyers to install their own Level II charging at home, increasing demand for the busiest locations.
 

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Wow! What a hit piece. I quit reading when I came to this:

"The electric car company also makes money from selling adapters to other automakers."

The agreements Tesla signed with other automakers include Tesla agreeing to manufacture and sell the adapters at cost (zero profit margin) to each manufacturer. When I see basic facts like that misrepresented, with no source listed as to how they know that, I immediately know I can't trust anything the article says.
Do you really think Musk would forgo profit out of the goodness of his cold calculating heart for the benefit of other EV brands?
 

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I don't think I need to configure anything on my Rivian to show Tesla superchargers available to me, do I?
By default, your vehicle nav will not direct you to a Tesla supercharger unless it's a magic dock. You have to open up the filters in the navigation app and make sure it will allow navigation to chargers that require an adaptor. I'm not talking about the Tesla app or Rivian app, I'm talking about the navigation on your vehicle's center screen itself.
 

bigsky

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By default, your vehicle nav will not direct you to a Tesla supercharger unless it's a magic dock.
Hmm. I opened up the navigation on my R1S display
By default, your vehicle nav will not direct you to a Tesla supercharger unless it's a magic dock. You have to open up the filters in the navigation app and make sure it will allow navigation to chargers that require an adaptor. I'm not talking about the Tesla app or Rivian app, I'm talking about the navigation on your vehicle's center screen itself.
My R1S is running 2024.27.01. Selecting Tesla chargers in navigation, it shows me all the available Tesla chargers I can use. I think I undestand what you mean. I manually selected the ones I may use; some do not have Magic Dock. I just add that charger to the navigation,voila!
As long as I can add it to my navigation, even if manually (part of trip planning) so it can precondition the pack, it's all good.
 

RivianRunner

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Do you really think Musk would forgo profit out of the goodness of his cold calculating heart for the benefit of other EV brands?
We know Tesla is manufacturing the adapters to make CCS ports compatible with NACS DCFC'ers and selling them at cost (zero net profit). That's a fact.

I'm not sure why you questioned Musk's motives or how we could discern those (other than by what Musk has said about it). He said he wasn't sure opening the Supercharger Network was the right business move, but it was the right thing to do. I doubt he did it specifically to help out other brands, more likely to help the customers of those brands in order to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport. If that helps the other brands, apparently Musk doesn't feel too threatened by it. If the competition were capable of selling their EVs at a profit, he might have felt differently about it, but it's pretty difficult to feel threatened by companies that lose tens of thousands of dollars on every sale, because that's not sustainable.

Cynicism will not get you very far in this world.
 

RivianRunner

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Those are both magic dock locations so yes ant CCS cars can charge there. Audi and Subaru can’t charge at non magic dock superchargers.
That's false.

Almost every EV, including Audi and Subarus can charge at a ton of Superchargers that don't have Magic Docks, they just need an adapter so the NACS charge plug will fit into their vehicle's CCS charge port.

I had already pointed this out, but it looks like it got deleted.
 

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That's false.

Almost every EV, including Audi and Subarus can charge at a ton of Superchargers that don't have Magic Docks, they just need an adapter so the NACS charge plug will fit into their vehicle's CCS charge port.

I had already pointed this out, but it looks like it got deleted.
Pretty sure it's only Rivian and Ford right now. That's what my Tesla app says too.
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