Tesla engineer urges Rivian to move charge port location on R2, R3, R3X for Supercharger access

[emoore]

From the Superchargers I am familiar with it seems like all of the newer V3 are included. The only exceptions I have found are where there are mixed V1/V2 and V3 chargers. Seems like those locations are not NACS compatible, I would venture to say there very well could be some early V3 stations out there that may have the older infrastructure from V2 that also may not be compatible.

Has anyone actually seen a newer V3 station that is not open to NACS? I’m watching the new station almost open in Destin, FL, I’m curious to see if it is on the NACS list once opened.

There are a lot that I have noticed. I check supercharge.info and all the other new ones aren't available to CCS cars. Nash, TX; Auburn, MA; and many more.

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[LivingInKaos]

Thanks for confirming, it is a bit puzzling.

When the SC's start opening for us this month, it won't be all at once either. They will select certain stations to launch with and slow roll additional ones. Did the same to Ford last month.

 

[emoore]

Thanks for confirming, it is a bit puzzling.

Tesla did say that not all V3s will be open. They are picking and choosing. Probably based on how busy? Or maybe new ones will take a few months to be added?

 

[SANZC02]

There are a lot that I have noticed. I check supercharge.info and all the other new ones aren't available to CCS cars. Nash, TX; Auburn, MA; and many more.

I was at the one in Auburn, MA in January, it is a mixture of V2 and V3.

I just looked up Nash, TX, that one is interesting, do you know when it opened?

 

[iamnid]

Lots of pages about what is the "correct" side for the port. The point is that the current charging infrastructure isn't very good. In fact, it's so bad that all manufacturers are adopting NACS so that they can have access to the supercharger network.

Given that there are so many V3 stalls presently installed with cords that won't reach the rear passenger side, it seems a helpful suggestion to me, that the Tesla engineer is encouraging Rivian to consider switching the charge point to the rear driver's side at some point in the next 2 years before the vehicle comes out.

I don't understand the logic of many of the posters here who want it to remain as is simply to be defiant and stick it to Tesla. Frankly, I don't want to be that guy who shows up at the supercharger and has to take 2 spots and/or has to wait for 2 spots in the right configuration to open up so that I can use the station.

Granted, a lot of this may be moot by the time the R2 comes out if lots of the stations are upgraded to V4 stalls and/or if the extension cord is released and isn't prohibitively expensive. It would seem like cost wouldn't be much of a factor (if any) in choosing to relocate the charge port from rear passenger side to rear driver's side.

Gaining access to the supercharger network can be a great thing for Rivian and, while the R2 is still in its non-production form, efforts should be made to make that experience as seamless and as easy as possible.

 

[SANZC02]

When the SC's start opening for us this month, it won't be all at once either. They will select certain stations to launch with and slow roll additional ones. Did the same to Ford last month.

Not sure how they would do that, I understand the Ford slow roll to limit initial trouble calls but once they open a location to NACS it would be harder to control.

Sure they can do it through the Tesla app as you configure the car you are using but using the Supercharger search screen does not ask for vehicle and I think that is the API that apps like ABRP are using and it does not take into account the vehicle you are routing only if you have include NACS networks.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

I totally agree, front right and rear left.

Two ports would be ideal, but the best part is no part when it comes to manufacturers cutting costs.

I think the front makes the most sense in the US, because 99% of us pull into a parking space, instead of backing in. This would also solve the towing conundrum. There might be safety concerns with this setup though as it seems like only a couple of manufacturers have opted for this early on.

The front right makes the most sense to me from a street charging perspective. Then we could replace all of the remaining parking meters with chargers instead. They’d be in the perfect spot.

 

[emoore]

I was at the one in Auburn, MA in January, it is a mixture of V2 and V3.

I just looked up Nash, TX, that one is interesting, do you know when it opened?

According to supercharge.info, it opened 2/29. There are a few others I have found so far. Especially new ones.

 

[ActionableDave]

Tesla must adapt or die? Why do I think that applies more to Rivian than Tesla? Hmmmm.....

Yes, cost matters a lot! And the design considerations I mentioned have everything to do with cost. Who do you think ultimately pays for EV charging infrastructure and electricity resistance losses? That's right, EV drivers!

Tesla has always looked at the entire system costs of owning an EV as well as user convenience, not just the purchase price. That's why they put the charge port on the driver rear. Not only does this location cost the same as the passenger rear, but it is also more convenient. And providing a consistent location on every Tesla model keeps fast charging infrastructure costs low. This is how Tesla, a struggling EV startup that experts gave a low probability of succeeding, became the most successful EV maker in the world.

That's how Tesla took the coveted title of "Best Selling Car in the World" last year. It's how they built the largest, most reliable and most cost-effective fast charging network in the world. It's how they sold more EVs last year than Chinas most efficient EV manufacturer, BYD.

These are huge successes that even a large company like GM, Ford or VW would be proud to achieve. Instead it was done by scrappy little Tesla. Now an even scrappier little company, Rivian, thinks they have a better way to do it.

In reality, RJ is just tired of people thinking his company is following in Tesla's footsteps, so he is always trying to differentiate his company from Tesla by making bold decisions that he thinks makes him look like a leader. Guess what? Putting the charge port on the passenger rear is bold. Boldly stupid. Bold decisions are only good if they help you win. Rivian is not winning, they are headed for a massive bailout in which investors lose 90% or more of the value of their investment.

If RJ was bold, he would raise the money they need now, not wait until both Tesla and BYD are producing 4 million EVs annually. And he would put his ego aside and put the charge ports in the least expensive, most convenient location. Because Tesla is not slowing down and neither is the size of the Supercharger Network. Sure, a little longer cable on Version 4 SC's might allow the cable to reach a passenger side rear charge port, but it will not be optimal. Sometimes the best solution is the most obvious solution.

You must have either a Tesla or Elon tattoo. Tesla has done many things right, but they screwed the pooch on the charge port location, and with making such short charging cables for their Superchargers. They could make the longer cables retractable, where the only time they are exposed at length is after someone has NFC'ed or logged into the charger.

 

[Marchin_MTB]

Just don’t do this at peak charging hours

 

[Hayseed_MS]

I love my Tesla and am looking forward to getting a R1S soon (waiting to see what the Peregrine has to offer).

Tesla is late to the game to put many caveats on their network - should have been done up front. I am not that smart but I can see what a cluster it will be when Teslas and Rivians show up to an 8 stall location to charge because their satnav told them there were still 4 stalls open. Whether you look at as 4 Teslas taking up all the spots or 4 Rivians taken up all the spots - does not matter to the reality of the situation. Getting a bunch of adults with mostly 1st world problems in their life together to solve this out on site will be fun to say the least.

Tesla should have seen this coming and fixed more of the issue prior to opening but that is SOP for Tesla - leap and then try to build the ground under you. The fix is not going to be quick or easy but does need to happen. Whether it is longer cables, extension cords, remarking lanes, etc. - do not pretend to know all the answers. I can say that Tesla is definitely working on the resolution but would have been nice to have in place prior to all this soon-to-be mess.

 

[Wojo]

I live within a few miles of a state park in Connecticut that has easily a dozen level 2 chargers for free. All of these chargers have a very functional retractable cable that would seem to be a solution until the auto manufacturers can get their shit together. If you look at all of the different ice vehicle gas tank fill locations, you can see that won’t happen anytime soon.

 

[MP3Mike]

Not sure how they would do that, I understand the Ford slow roll to limit initial trouble calls but once they open a location to NACS it would be harder to control.

It would be easy, just like right now a site open to Ford can't be used by Rivian. (Even if you are a Ford EV owner and activate/pay for the charging via the Ford Pass app.) In other words, it appears that Tesla can tell what brand vehicle is actually trying to charge.

But I don't think Tesla is going to actually do that. Any site open to NACS partners will be open to all partners that have been granted permissions. (So once Rivian owners get access I suspect they will have access to exactly the same sites as Ford owners do.)

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

I have to weigh in on this again. I think the best location for the charging port is the front passenger side of the vehicle. This way if curbside charging ever becomes a thing Rivian will be poised to take advantage.

You don’t want it on the rear passenger side because there will be instances where people don’t pull up enough in a parking spot and then block their passenger doors from opening. Put it in the same spot as parking meters. It’s an already established convention, it doesn’t block any doors, and it’s easy to line your car up with it because you can see it from the front windshield.

 

[RivianRunner]

I live within a few miles of a state park in Connecticut that has easily a dozen level 2 chargers for free. All of these chargers have a very functional retractable cable that would seem to be a solution until the auto manufacturers can get their shit together. If you look at all of the different ice vehicle gas tank fill locations, you can see that won’t happen anytime soon.

Those retractable charge cords are Level 2, not DC fast chargers. And they add significant reliability and maintenance issues to deal with from the day they are installed. There is something elegant about all manufacturers coming together and putting ports in the same location to accelerate the transition to electric vehicles as inexpensively and conveniently as possible.

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