Tesla FSD Full Self Driving & Rivian ?

[mkg3]

Then was mention in Tesla's earnings call yesterday that they are in talks with another car manufacture about licensing their full self driving software. I wonder if Rivian may be that manufacture. Driver+ seems to be way behind others, and I would expect they could more easily make the necessary hardware changes.

Faster Path to Market:

• Reduced Development Time: Leveraging Tesla's existing FSD system would save Rivian years of development on their Driver+ assistant. This allows Rivian to offer a more competitive product sooner.
• Improved Feature Set: Tesla's FSD is constantly evolving, offering features like lane-changing and traffic light recognition. Licensing FSD would instantly upgrade Rivian's Driver+ capabilities.

Addressing a Potential Customer Need:

• Market Demand: While Rivian hasn't prioritize self-driving, some customers might desire it, especially when Tesla officially rolls it out. FSD could attract a wider audience seeking advanced driver-assistance features.
• Competitive Landscape: Tesla is a leader in self-driving technology. Offering a comparable system would help Rivian compete more effectively.

Focus on Core Strengths:

• Frees Up Resources: By using FSD, Rivian's engineering team could focus on core vehicle development and differentiation, like Rivian's off-road focus.
• Faster Iteration: Licensing avoids the need for a complete in-house solution, allowing Rivian to adapt and improve Driver+ features more quickly based on Tesla's updates.

However, there are also potential drawbacks to consider:

• Cost: Licensing FSD might be expensive, impacting Rivian's profit margins.
• Integration Challenges: Integrating Tesla's software with Rivian's hardware and systems could be complex and time-consuming.
• Strategic Dependence: Rivian would become reliant on Tesla's roadmap for future advancements in self-driving technology.

Ultimately, the decision depends on Rivian's long-term vision. If self-driving becomes a priority (or a competitive requirement), licensing FSD could be a strategic move. But if Rivian prioritizes differentiation and driver engagement, focusing on in-house development of Driver+ might be their choice (... and we are in for a long wait).

Thoughts?

I listened to the Tesla earnings call too, and the comment was a major auto manufacturer. Rivian is not a major auto manufacturer. They are niche at best today.

Would not surprise me if it's Ford. They really don't have anything going

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[Dustyshades]

I hear Tesla is in talks with Fisker and Vinfast to license FSD

This makes more sense. Would have to be a company that makes poor decisions and hasn’t done anything to invest in this front on their own already. Stellantis would also make sense to me. Maybe JLR

 

[voxel]

No thanks Tesla AP and FSD - which are terrible and disengage too often.

I dislike Driver+ also (for the same disengagement reasons) and think Rivian should license out HDA or BlueCruise.

 

[voxel]

I listened to the Tesla earnings call too, and the comment was a major auto manufacturer. Rivian is not a major auto manufacturer. They are niche at best today.

Stellantis. Jeep makes the worst ADAS. Toyota's Safety Sense isn't great either but 3.0 supposedly is solid.

Would not surprise me if it's Ford. They really don't have anything going

BlueCruise is vastly better than Tesla's AP.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Timeline doesn't make any sense with Rivian already introducing a new sensor suite, so I highly doubt it's Rivian.

If Rivian does license the technology from Tesla, they are going to lose money on a vehicle they sell me because I've no interest in paying for it. I'll also miss the radar sensors because they work better than vision only.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Then was mention in Tesla's earnings call yesterday that they are in talks with another car manufacture about licensing their full self driving software. I wonder if Rivian may be that manufacture. Driver+ seems to be way behind others, and I would expect they could more easily make the necessary hardware changes.

Faster Path to Market:

• Reduced Development Time: Leveraging Tesla's existing FSD system would save Rivian years of development on their Driver+ assistant. This allows Rivian to offer a more competitive product sooner.
• Improved Feature Set: Tesla's FSD is constantly evolving, offering features like lane-changing and traffic light recognition. Licensing FSD would instantly upgrade Rivian's Driver+ capabilities.

Addressing a Potential Customer Need:

• Market Demand: While Rivian hasn't prioritize self-driving, some customers might desire it, especially when Tesla officially rolls it out. FSD could attract a wider audience seeking advanced driver-assistance features.
• Competitive Landscape: Tesla is a leader in self-driving technology. Offering a comparable system would help Rivian compete more effectively.

Focus on Core Strengths:

• Frees Up Resources: By using FSD, Rivian's engineering team could focus on core vehicle development and differentiation, like Rivian's off-road focus.
• Faster Iteration: Licensing avoids the need for a complete in-house solution, allowing Rivian to adapt and improve Driver+ features more quickly based on Tesla's updates.

However, there are also potential drawbacks to consider:

• Cost: Licensing FSD might be expensive, impacting Rivian's profit margins.
• Integration Challenges: Integrating Tesla's software with Rivian's hardware and systems could be complex and time-consuming.
• Strategic Dependence: Rivian would become reliant on Tesla's roadmap for future advancements in self-driving technology.

Ultimately, the decision depends on Rivian's long-term vision. If self-driving becomes a priority (or a competitive requirement), licensing FSD could be a strategic move. But if Rivian prioritizes differentiation and driver engagement, focusing on in-house development of Driver+ might be their choice (... and we are in for a long wait).

Thoughts?

This is the real reason Tesla gave up on LIDAR: so they could license FSD to more car makers who use cameras and cheaper sensors.

 

[jambaman84]

I don't see Rivian doing this. I think they want to build up their own version and brag about it.

 

[Rivian Head]

We all have biases and prejudice against a company or two, but at the end data matters. Will see what supervised FSD safety data shows in 1-2 years. Just as every airplane has automated flight system, I predict cars will have it as the standard system in a few years.

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Timeline doesn't make any sense with Rivian already introducing a new sensor suite, so I highly doubt it's Rivian.

If Rivian does license the technology from Tesla, they are going to lose money on a vehicle they sell me because I've no interest in paying for it. I'll also miss the radar sensors because they work better than vision only.

The new sensor suite is exactly why it makes sense. Made to order.

Recall that RJ said Rivian’s R2 and R3 sensors would allow its drivers to take their hands off the wheeland concentrate on things that really matter to them. Either they’ve cracked it or they’re buying it.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The new sensor suite is exactly why it makes sense. Made to order.

Recall that RJ said Rivian’s R2 and R3 sensors would allow its drivers to take their hands off the wheeland concentrate on things that really matter to them. Either they’ve cracked it or they’re buying it.

IIRC the Tesla "announcement" made it sound like it's several years away. Rivian is getting a refresh before that. Primary reason you can't do hands off in the Rivian now is because their original driver facing camera wasn't reliable enough. Position of it didn't work out.

 

[Riv I Am]

I think it is very unlikely it is Rivian…

That being said, if Rivian got it, it would be game over for me. Rivian would then be the perfect vehicle.

I’m in the minority (on this forum). I have used and loved every iteration of Tesla’s FSD for years and am a huge believer in it. It is second to none imho.

 

[jplblue]

I wouldn't say that Driver+ is way behind others. Here are the results from Out of Spec Hogback Test (ADAS testing circuit):

https://outofspecstudios.com/hogback

Rivian actually scored the best in the "Driving" column. The main thing I'd like to see is expanded availability.

 

[Rivian Head]

I think it is very unlikely it is Rivian…

That being said, if Rivian got it, it would be game over for me. Rivian would then be the perfect vehicle.

I’m in the minority (on this forum). I have used and loved every iteration of Tesla’s FSD for years and am a huge believer in it. It is second to none imho.

Totally agree. Never a believer until the free trial, then wow, I will never buy a vehicle without it. Most haters on this forum have never tried it. Future is here, and getting better, but many would still rather ride horse carriages

 

[FooF]

Totally agree. Never a believer until the free trial, then wow, I will never buy a vehicle without it. Most haters on this forum have never tried it. Future is here, and getting better, but many would still rather ride horse carriages

Tried it plenty and it and I think it sucks constantly having to disengage to keep it from getting into accidents.

 

[Rgrin]

Tesla is trying to do self-driving on the cheap (cameras only), but is still only a Level 2 system. Everyone else uses radar, and the only two true robotaxis (Level 5) in the US (Waymo and Cruise) use both radar and lidar. Mercedes is the only authorized Level 3 in the US, and it has a lidar for its Drive Pilot. Volvo EX90 also has lidar, though it is to be seen whether they file for L3 authorization.

Tesla drivers are welcome to their cheap FSD. It isn't collecting all the radar data that BlueCruise, Ultra/SuperCruise and all the rest have. So FSD will be data-deficient compared to competitors, and autonomous driving relies on data.

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