Tesla nefarious behavior?

[JM.]

ou are saying Tesla’s systems are NOT safer than an human driver?

No.

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[ukyank]

The reason why we accept human caused accidents is humans have a right to travel, robots do not.

I support decreasing accidents, which robots will accomplish, and not some weird idea of ‘rights’ on public roads

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I support decreasing accidents, which robots will accomplish, and not some weird idea of ‘rights’ on public roads

Rights are not a "weird idea" they were the principles this country was founded on.

 

[ukyank]

Rights are not a "weird idea" they were the principles this country was founded on.

Yes, but you’re talking about using public roads which comes with rules & limitations not just some general anarchy-esque right to travel; if one day the law prohibits vehicles under human control from using the roadways, your right to travel remains intact regardless of your preference. (unless you build your own private road network). The right always comes with stipulations. I’m sure there’s some people who would rather ride their horse on the interstate but that’s not legal either. Either way , I just scratch my head at people who prefer less safety on the roads.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Rights are not a "weird idea" they were the principles this country was founded on.

So lets look at it a from a freedom perspective.

Truly autonomous cars allow lots of people to have more freedom to get places than without them.

It also frees us from the need to have so many parking lots. That's just wasted space that could be better used for urban parks, housing, etc.

Autonomous vehicles can also augment existing solutions like buses, trains, etc quite nicely.

Autonomous vehicles can also scale depending on the need. If you want 10 people then it can be a van. You can also link them together in a way that you can't do so with human driven vehicles.

I'm a big believer in autonomous vehicles despite being very negative towards Elon's FSD pipe dream that for a long time was open fraud. People just loved Elon too much to admit how fraudulent it really was.

Autonomous vehicles will save lives in the long term. This really comes down to a trolley car problem because obviously people will die by the hands of robots where we'll learn from those incidents and correct it.

Currently we go through the same cycle of teach people how to drive and part of this process is excepting deaths and injuring that come through the process. We've made numerous improvements to safety in vehicles, but all that has done is challenged humans to be even dumber.

For autonomous vehicles I vastly prefer Waymo's careful and pragmatic approach, but its also extremely limited in that its just robotaxi's over limited geofenced areas.

I also don't think its going to be enough to compete with the Chinese.

 

[pamalabama]

For autonomous vehicles I vastly prefer Waymo's careful and pragmatic approach, but its also extremely limited in that its just robotaxi's over limited geofenced areas.

Waymo has an alarming limitation which has nothing to do with geofence.

It is compute. Just look at the range of a waymo vehicle. 100 miles. Figure they have a 90kwh+ battery pack and you can see how powerful the computers are required to run their self driving. You can't scale with compute like that

Until waymo can reduce compute requirements it is not possible to scale with a system like that.

Tesla cybercab solves a very hard problem with electric vehicles and robotaxis. Discharge too much of the battery pack and you cause significant degradation. The way around that is as tesla has demonstrated with their design. Use a chemstry like LFP and use the smallest battery pack possible. You can get good range just by having maximum efficiency

Lars Moravey claimed they could hit a city range of 300 miles with a less than 50kwh pack.

The problem with having 4500 watts of robotaxi compute is it is always running. Can you imagine the cars using that much power to drive around and wait for riders?

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Waymo has an alarming limitation which has nothing to do with geofence.

It is compute. Just look at the range of a waymo vehicle. 100 miles. Figure they have a 90kwh+ battery pack and you can see how powerful the computers are required to run their self driving. You can't scale with compute like that

Until waymo can reduce compute requirements it is not possible to scale with a system like that.

Tesla cybercab solves a very hard problem with electric vehicles and robotaxis. Discharge too much of the battery pack and you cause significant degradation. The way around that is as tesla has demonstrated with their design. Use a chemstry like LFP and use the smallest battery pack possible. You can get good range just by having maximum efficiency

Lars Moravey claimed they could hit a city range of 300 miles with a less than 50kwh pack.

The problem with having 4500 watts of robotaxi compute is it is always running. Can you imagine the cars using that much power to drive around and wait for riders?

Tesla self driving has 10x the death rate that human drivers do.

 

[JM.]

Well, Twitter is now full of all of the evidence about Rober's lies and many relevant people repeating what I said. I can't wait to see all the posts tomorrow from rabid Tesla haters excusing it all away and finding ways to keep their strongly held prejudices in spite of facts.

Just one of dozens...

 

[pamalabama]

Tesla self driving has 10x the death rate that human drivers do.

2 deaths in 3+ billion miles. That puts FSD at 1/3 the death rate of human drivers.

If you want to find me more than 2 deaths with FSD be my guest. They don't exist

And actually 1 of those FSD deaths was due to a negligent truck driver who pulled out in front of the car, while also the car owner abused FSD by cranking the speed as high as it would go. If we ignore that one, there is only 1 FSD death.

 

[captainjp]

Well, Twitter is now full of all of the evidence about Rober's lies and many relevant people repeating what I said. I can't wait to see all the posts tomorrow from rabid Tesla haters excusing it all away and finding ways to keep their strongly held prejudices in spite of facts.

Just one of dozens...

“Paul tested the right Tesla systems, which is important, but his test also has some flaws. With a much lower budget, his wall isn’t nearly as good as Rober’s. It is noticeably lighter than the real road, sky and terrain, and this changes with the light between his two tests. The wall has several defects where gaps between the photos are obvious. Unfortunately, one thing that computer vision systems, even machine-learning ones, focus on is “edges,” and Paul’s wall is full of clear edges, making it much more likely that CV will detect it.”

 

[RandomMcRandomFace]

Waymo has an alarming limitation which has nothing to do with geofence.

It is compute. Just look at the range of a waymo vehicle. 100 miles. Figure they have a 90kwh+ battery pack and you can see how powerful the computers are required to run their self driving. You can't scale with compute like that

Until waymo can reduce compute requirements it is not possible to scale with a system like that.

Tesla cybercab solves a very hard problem with electric vehicles and robotaxis. Discharge too much of the battery pack and you cause significant degradation. The way around that is as tesla has demonstrated with their design. Use a chemstry like LFP and use the smallest battery pack possible. You can get good range just by having maximum efficiency

Lars Moravey claimed they could hit a city range of 300 miles with a less than 50kwh pack.

The problem with having 4500 watts of robotaxi compute is it is always running. Can you imagine the cars using that much power to drive around and wait for riders?

I would say the big difference between Waymo and Cybercab is one exists and functions and the other one does not. Just like FSD, robots, etc. etc. Tesla fans, you really need to stop acting as though the thing Musk promises is actually a thing.

There is no such thing as FSD. There is a supervised level 2 driving aid that still requires human intervention to be safe. Tesla will never get approval (ever - EXCEPT if Trump just makes it happen as a favor to his buddy) to have a self driving taxi that lacks LIDAR. It is a fantasy. I am very sorry that the promise of Tesla is crumbling. Their cars are starting to recede In the market. The Cybertruck is a disaster and a sales failure. The S and X don’t sell at all. The 3 and Y are the only two viable options and Musk is making sure that ceases to be the case. The robots are just the next FSD - coming next year!

I am not sure why the same folks come into this forum and desparately cling to Tesla’s obvious over-promising as if it is reality and argue endlessly. None of what Musk has claimed has proven true - not FSD, not the roadster, not the solar roof, not the Semi, not the revolutionary batteries, not the Cybertruck, not the robots, and this will be the case with the Cybercab.

 

[Shmoe]

Is this nefarious behavior by Tesla? Full self driving switches off one second before collision.

https://electrek.co/2025/03/17/tesla-fans-exposes-shadiness-defend-autopilot-crash/

For a NASA scientist this guy was shady as hell in his methods if you wish to be completely objective.

 

[COdogman]

No.

Good lord ”No” that’s not what you are saying or “No”, Tesla’s systems are not safer than a human driver?

I didn't. I certainly didn't say that, you assumed I did. Your rabid need to be right is tricking you I suppose. Fully self driving cars are made by a lot of people other than Tesla, and they are what I'm talking about. I never said Tesla.

You quoted it yourself, where I never said Tesla. Amazing, truly. And my reply was to a person not specifying Teslas. WTF!

Great. So let’s go back to where you prove that.

And just to be clear, you are saying Tesla’s systems are NOT safer than an human driver?

And in case you need it pointed out to you, human drivers don’t only drive in sunny CA, AZ, TX.

 

[captainjp]

I would say the big difference between Waymo and Cybercab is one exists and functions and the other one does not. Just like FSD, robots, etc. etc. Tesla fans, you really need to stop acting as though the thing Musk promises is actually a thing.

There is no such thing as FSD. There is a supervised level 2 driving aid that still requires human intervention to be safe. Tesla will never get approval (ever - EXCEPT if Trump just makes it happen as a favor to his buddy) to have a self driving taxi that lacks LIDAR. It is a fantasy. I am very sorry that the promise of Tesla is crumbling. Their cars are starting to recede In the market. The Cybertruck is a disaster and a sales failure. The S and X don’t sell at all. The 3 and Y are the only two viable options and Musk is making sure that ceases to be the case. The robots are just the next FSD - coming next year!

I am not sure why the same folks come into this forum and desparately cling to Tesla’s obvious over-promising as if it is reality and argue endlessly. None of what Musk has claimed has proven true - not FSD, not the roadster, not the solar roof, not the Semi, not the revolutionary batteries, not the Cybertruck, not the robots, and this will be the case with the Cybercab.

Let’s not forget the cyber bus. Oh, and the boring company’s promises of high-speed transit between major cities. Musk may as well just give up on that flop and send the boring machines to work on the Gateway Tunnel project to expedite completion. This is FAR more important than travel between LA and Vegas.

 

[JM.]

For a NASA scientist this guy was shady as hell in his methods if you wish to be completely objective.

Exactly. Someone claiming to be an actual rocket surgeon and also a tech engineer then goes and does the test with a massive list of poor choices? So is he stupid and should be ignored, or is he a liar and should be ignored?

Good lord ”No” that’s not what you are saying or “No”, Tesla’s systems are not safer than a human driver?

No, I did not say either. I did not say anything about Tesla in the posts you keep quoting. YOU made up the idea in your own head that because I didn't say Tesla ADAS was safer than a human, therefore, I must think they are not. I simply didn't talk about it. Reading comprehension here is severely damaged by rabid anti-Tesla bias.

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