Tick Tick Tick...

[sevengroove]

Before I read up on MIIR, had to focus on my day job for a bit so I could earn the incremental bread for a Lucid Gravity in the event Rivian doesn't come through.

I'm sure you'll be able to squeeze in some reading time in between comparison shots and write-ups of mugs .

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[AllInev]

Maybe you just need to drink faster? 5 hours to drink a coffee? yuck.

Agree! For me, the only coffee worse than old-coffee is warm old-coffee.

 

[7cupholders]

They probably would have said the truck is still scheduled to be delivered at the end of October

It's still October in

Just to be clear, you think there's a legitimate chance that Rivian has put tens of billions of dollars, enormous capital expenditures, and produced thousands of units of a vehicle that all hinges on some single mythical "truck readiness" engineer's sign off which they haven't bothered to get?

I'm not sure why we all act like this is some big surprise. We've known since well before the Normal plant was fired up that scale and logistics are the hard part. We saw Tesla almost go bankrupt because of this same part. Even assuming the R1T is perfect and no assembly line challenges, nationwide fulfillment is still a hard part. Trucks take weeks, not days, to get from assembly line to customer in the best case. And of course, the assembly line will have challenges, the supply chain does have challenges. So we should naturally expect that things will often take longer than Rivian hoped.

This may be frustrating, but it's neither unforeseeable nor existential, nor does it imply some deep lingering malaise that the company is trying to hide from us. It just means this shit is hard and involves lots of factors which confound the reliability of month-to-month predictions.

Awful lot of armchair quarterbacks around these parts.

I believe the yellow on the logo's are actual some electron based cheese that takes a few months to cure. They should be coming out of the Rivian cellar in no time.

 

[mgc0216]

Rivian isn’t just uncommunicative, it’s dishonest. Lying by omission and creating false expectations in the process. It’s gotta stop.

I was with you right up until this point. They are not being dishonest, and it's certainly not lying by omission.

As for "it's gotta stop" - my response is "or what?" - I'm sure they are aware that a few hundred (probably less) people on an Internet forum who are basically the most invested early adopters are upset. Yes there are probably a couple thousand people across reddit, facebook, and these forums, but only a small percentage are actually daily active users.

But, it'd be a stretch to say that we represent the other 70,000 reservation holders (if you figure there are 1,000 hyper active people waiting with bated breath). In fact, it's a stretch to say we all are equally concerned by any of this. So yes, a couple hundred people are peeved, that's immaterial in the long game.

 

[paariv]

I was with you right up until this point. They are not being dishonest, and it's certainly not lying by omission.

As for "it's gotta stop" - my response is "or what?" - I'm sure they are aware that a few hundred (probably less) people on an Internet forum who are basically the most invested early adopters are upset. Yes there are probably a couple thousand people across reddit, facebook, and these forums, but only a small percentage are actually daily active users.

But, it'd be a stretch to say that we represent the other 70,000 reservation holders (if you figure there are 1,000 hyper active people waiting with bated breath). In fact, it's a stretch to say we all are equally concerned by any of this. So yes, a couple hundred people are peeved, that's immaterial in the long game.

What do you call the stunt deliveries of 2 R1Ses if not dishonest?

What do you call the messaging around October deliveries- which they said were on track until the last day of the month when they had to know way earlier they weren’t going to deliver - if not dishonest? It’s not like they were 2 days late, they still haven’t delivered them and won’t until March or April (if that)!

It’s gotta stop because it’s wrong, not because there’s a certain number of annoyed people. Size of the forums has nothing to do with anything.

 

[E.S.]

What do you call the stunt deliveries of 2 R1Ses if not dishonest?

A realistic expectation from a start up company that's been in production mode for only about 5 months. It's frustrating? Hell yes. But anyone expecting that this company on their first attempt to deliver even 1/4th the capacity of a legacy automaker is out of their minds. IMHO, that they managed to get 1000+ of the 1200 they aimed for was a friggin miracle, because I truly expected less than half this number.

I am with all of you that the wait sucks, but if you're in this thinking they're going to churn out vehicles at the rate of any automaker in production mode for 10+ years, I got some REALLY BAD NEWS for you.

Rivian is and will face new company production issues for several months. NO amount of backing/money in the world will change this. They lack experience, not funds. The hurdles we'll see will be them working hard to ramp up production and how fast they can get a significant amount of their RAN up and running successfully. Worse yet, unlike Tesla, Rivian HAS competition breathing down their backs. To say Rivian has it rough atm is putting it very lightly.

Everyone that wants a Rivian now is going to stress themselves to the point of (almost) walking away. Only suggestion I have is lease another vehicle till Rivian comes up to capacity (and works out the first generation blues). Otherwise, your doctor(s) are going to tell you to do something about that high blood pressure

 

[Ladiver]

@E.S. Do you really believe that producing 2 R1S vehicles (for CEO and CFO) then focusing back on R1T is really having R1S production started? I think It was total BS and for show only. If that wasn’t dishonest, I am not sure what Rivian would have to do for you to question them.
The Bro-Culture is still strong in Rivian.

 

[E.S.]

@E.S. Do you really believe that producing 2 R1S vehicles (for CEO and CFO) then focusing back on R1T is really having R1S production started? I think It was total BS and for show only. If that wasn’t dishonest, I am not sure what Rivian would have to do for you to question them.
The Bro-Culture is still strong in Rivian.

No, I don't believe it. But I'm also not foolish enough to believe a company this early in the production inception will have any significant production experience or progress.

My point is: anyone having any production expectations from a company still this early in their stage IS going to be let down. That they managed to get a few R1S out is astonishing. But still just because it has been released doesn't mean that they're ready to cover all the demand for that model. Again, they're a company in production mode for barely 5 months. Anyone still not grasping this, needs to either snap out and come back to their senses or continue bursting their blood vessels waiting on something the company has no direct control over as they are facing new company woes on top of everything else that's causing all companies delays. Again I'll restate - the wait absolutely sucks. But thinking this is a bait 'n' switch, or a deception, is just excuses to blame the company. They're new. They do NOT have the production experience or capacity yet. Give them the proper time to flourish and what many are asking for will come true. Just not at the speed that you all want because it's currently unrealistic.

Regarding questioning Rivian? Hell yeah I have them and have even posted my thoughts on the matter. I STILL don't harp them because I realize their current situation. Had this been 2 yrs in production mode and they were doing this, I'd get on them so hard to the point of going legal. THIS isn't the case atm.

Bro-culture? Really? ?

 

[SeaGeo]

@E.S. Do you really believe that producing 2 R1S vehicles (for CEO and CFO) then focusing back on R1T is really having R1S production started? I think It was total BS and for show only. If that wasn’t dishonest, I am not sure what Rivian would have to do for you to question them.
The Bro-Culture is still strong in Rivian.

Don't forget, GM made... 1( i don't think it was 2...) HummerEV for 2021 "production".

 

[Ladiver]

No, I don't believe it. But I'm also not foolish enough to believe a company this early in the production inception will have any significant production experience or progress.

My point is: anyone having any production expectations from a company still this early in their stage IS going to be let down. That they managed to get a few R1S out is astonishing. But still just because it has been released doesn't mean that they're ready to cover all the demand for that model. Again, they're a company in production mode for barely 5 months. Anyone still not grasping this, needs to either snap out and come back to their senses or continue bursting their blood vessels waiting on something the company has no direct control over as they are facing new company woes on top of everything else that's causing all companies delays. Again I'll restate - the wait absolutely sucks. But thinking this is a bait 'n' switch, or a deception, is just excuses to blame the company. They're new. They do NOT have the production experience or capacity yet. Give them the proper time to flourish and what many are asking for will come true. Just not at the speed that you all want because it's currently unrealistic.

Regarding questioning Rivian? Hell yeah I have them and have even posted my thoughts on the matter. I STILL don't harp them because I realize their current situation. Had this been 2 yrs in production mode and they were doing this, I'd get on them so hard to the point of going legal. THIS isn't the case atm.

Bro-culture? Really? ?

We can agree to disagree on the deceit and dishonesty. This is is all part of Bro-Culture.

Rivian has “met” some of its goals through technicalities.

 

[Ladiver]

Don't forget, GM made... 1( i don't think it was 2...) HummerEV for 2021 "production".

Very true! They aren’t any better. When are F-150 Lightning deliveries?

They are all BS, but does that make it right? Rivian had an opportunity to do things different.

 

[mgc0216]

What do you call the stunt deliveries of 2 R1Ses if not dishonest?

They said "we made two R1S vehicles and they went to the CEO and the CFO (I think)" - they didn't say we made two vehicles and shipped them to customers who have been waiting for years, they told us exactly what they did.

Exactly what was dishonest?

What do you call the messaging around October deliveries- which they said were on track until the last day of the month when they had to know way earlier they weren’t going to deliver - if not dishonest? It’s not like they were 2 days late, they still haven’t delivered them and won’t until March or April (if that)!

Someone probably believed until the last moment they should ship cars, until they realized the couldn't. I still don't call that "dishonest" - yes, at some point someone knew, but it wasn't the CS rep chatting with the customers and Rivian never put out a note on 10/31 saying "yep we can still ship these in November". Again, not dishonest. This stuff happens all the time in our everyday life, how many times have you found out from a colleague that a deliverable was going to be later after it was already due? A situation changes and evolves. It is terrible communication and it's disappointing, but I think it's a stretch to call it "lying" or "dishonest"

It’s gotta stop because it’s wrong, not because there’s a certain number of annoyed people. Size of the forums has nothing to do with anything.

Again, it's not "wrong" it's just reality. Beyond that . . .

Certainly size of impact is relevant. We make these kind of decisions every day (how much information do we release, what actions do we take) based on impact and other factors (like how much do we know).

Maybe they have decided that they are better off not giving a delivery update because they can't give an accurate one at this point (they are still supply constrained, they haven't done the computations on how the max pack to large pack shift will happen, they just reconfigured some parts of the line, and want to be sure those fixes are going to hold up) or maybe they don't know the ripple effect if they miss the Jan/Feb targets, can they absorb them in the March / April window (possible because as we know there aren't all that many) or is this a one for one shift and everyone is affected.

The reality is there is a much longer goal here than appeasing a small percentage of their customer base and it's almost always better to just give all the bad news at once rather than parcel it out ("We're not delivering 100 vehicles we promised in Jan / Feb., sorry" only leasts to 71,000 people asking "what does this mean to me"? Saying "We missed our Jan/Feb deliveries, but we expect we can absorb that backlog in 90 days. That means Jan / Feb deliveries go to March / April, about half the deliveries in the March/April window go to May/June, and nobody beyond the March/April window should be affected. Later today we'll release updated windows via our website" (because that would be a perfect time to introduce that new feature).

Also, not sure exactly when their quarter ends (I would guess 2/28) but they'll be in a quiet period between then and when they announce earnings on 3/10.

 

[E.S.]

We can agree to disagree on the deceit and dishonesty. This is is all part of Bro-Culture.

What is it with you and Bro-Culture? It's about as irrelevant as the conversation about being disappointed of a company that is still too early in their inception to do anything significant. Get over the Bro-Culture thing, man. You're using it as a crutch/excuse.

Rivian has “met” some of its goals through technicalities.

Some. Not all, especially not the concerns the majority you all have: The wait times on Rivian's two main products

 

[Ladiver]

I’ll just end this useless banter and say you win…


bro ?

 

[SeaGeo]

Very true! They aren’t any better. When are F-150 Lightning deliveries?

They are all BS, but does that make it right? Rivian had an opportunity to do things different.

@Riviot you're wave 1 right? When is yours?

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