Unauthorized Data Collection from TESLA chargers?

[Triangle]

I am very curious about the adoption of the Tesla NACS charger... I think its a great partnership and I'm excited to use it on road trips. My question is, what data is being scraped by TESLA when we plug in currently and in the near future? I assume this is part of the deal for them and another profit avenue... selling our data,(not a fan). I just hope that Rivian is upfront about this and hopefully they can firewall personal info and driving data from Tesla. Or is the sharing of that part of the deal? Would just like to know upfront if that's the case. Curious if anyone has heard anything from Rivian about this.

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[Dark-Fx]

Curious if anyone has heard anything from Rivian about this.

No and I'm guessing that part of the agreement is they aren't even allowed to disclose this sort of information.

 

[mkennedy1996]

I am very curious about the adoption of the Tesla NACS charger... I think its a great partnership and I'm excited to use it on road trips. My question is, what data is being scraped by TESLA when we plug in currently and in the near future? I assume this is part of the deal for them and another profit avenue... selling our data,(not a fan). I just hope that Rivian is upfront about this and hopefully they can firewall personal info and driving data from Tesla. Or is the sharing of that part of the deal? Would just like to know upfront if that's the case. Curious if anyone has heard anything from Rivian about this.

What information is shared with EA, EVgo etc?

Probably best to only charge at home with a home charger that does not have any form of internet connection.

 

[ohseedee]

It's 2023 and pretty much everything with power in your life is collecting and using "your data." I wouldn't worry too much about the limited data Tesla could gather from your car while plugged into a SC. It's a drop in the bucket as more companies are gathering way more personal data about you as I type this...

 

[Monkey]

Tesla superchargers and the NACS standard use the exact same signaling protocols as CCS1 / J1772 and the Plug N Charge standard.

So if you look through the specs for any of this stuff, you can see that the chargers identify vehicles based on VIN. Data exchanged between the vehicles can contain mostly telemetry type of things -- State of Charge, current mileage, battery temps and charge rate negotiation... It's not the chargers themselves that are going to harvest much for meaningful data. Of course, they probably track VIN-based charging habits/location. Each vehicle is a point in a cloud of data that helps them better understand how, where, why people charge and how trends migrate over time and due to factors like weather, holidays, etc..

The individual tracking that you're probably more concerned with is going to come from your own phone and payment methods, app usage. That's where they link individuals to VINs and use location and timing and app usage trends to build marketing profiles and all that. Being concerned with Tesla over this seems a little biased... As all the charging networks have apps and the ability to compile, profile and analyze all this data.

One thing about Tesla is they have actually been extremely open about data collection and what they collect and when. They have made the data logs in their cars user-accessible and all the information, including what data is transacted during a charge session, is all there.

I also have a unique email address for my Tesla account that I've had for almost 8 years and spanning two vehicles. I have never once received any third party marketing/ spam/ whatever at that email address. Only stuff from Tesla.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Yeah this sounds like more of a concern if Zuckerberg or Google made a car. Those two are notorious for data harvesting.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Wait till you find out what Google knows about you!!!!

 

[Triangle]

It's 2023 and pretty much everything with power in your life is collecting and using "your data." I wouldn't worry too much about the limited data Tesla could gather from your car while plugged into a SC. It's a drop in the bucket as more companies are gathering way more personal data about you as I type this...

I know it's the norm, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. I think we as customers need to start valuing our data because it IS incredibly valuable. We just give it away and often get nothing in return other than scam ads and phishing attacks. I think it's important to push back on this whenever we can. I'm militant on this stuff and I get magnitudes less garbage and scams than my friends. At the very least we deserve to know what data they are able to scrape.

 

[Triangle]

Wait till you find out what Google knows about you!!!!

Well aware lol, I wasn't born yesterday. I never link accounts, never sign in when web searching, don't use siri/alexa and only have ghost accounts for the main social media sites. I can control a lot of it, but I forfeit some conveniences for that.
I have to accept that google reads my emails if I want to use their service, always has been the case and that's the deal. Just because google already knows a lot doesn't mean you should roll over and give your data out to anyone else that wants it. Especially for nothing in return, just my opinion.

 

[SANZC02]

I know it's the norm, but that doesn't mean we have to accept it. I think we as customers need to start valuing our data because it IS incredibly valuable. We just give it away and often get nothing in return other than scam ads and phishing attacks. I think it's important to push back on this whenever we can. I'm militant on this stuff and I get magnitudes less garbage and scams than my friends. At the very least we deserve to know what data they are able to scrape.

We kind of do get things in return, we choose to use our cell phones, credit cards, charge our cars, and surf the web. In return companies collect data and sell it to help them increase revenue. If not for them collecting and selling the data the cost of the services would be higher so, essentially this behavior is helping to subsidize the current pricing of the services we choose to use.

 

[Triangle]

Tesla superchargers and the NACS standard use the exact same signaling protocols as CCS1 / J1772 and the Plug N Charge standard.

So if you look through the specs for any of this stuff, you can see that the chargers identify vehicles based on VIN. Data exchanged between the vehicles can contain mostly telemetry type of things -- State of Charge, current mileage, battery temps and charge rate negotiation... It's not the chargers themselves that are going to harvest much for meaningful data. Of course, they probably track VIN-based charging habits/location. Each vehicle is a point in a cloud of data that helps them better understand how, where, why people charge and how trends migrate over time and due to factors like weather, holidays, etc..

The individual tracking that you're probably more concerned with is going to come from your own phone and payment methods, app usage. That's where they link individuals to VINs and use location and timing and app usage trends to build marketing profiles and all that. Being concerned with Tesla over this seems a little biased... As all the charging networks have apps and the ability to compile, profile and analyze all this data.

One thing about Tesla is they have actually been extremely open about data collection and what they collect and when. They have made the data logs in their cars user-accessible and all the information, including what data is transacted during a charge session, is all there.

I also have a unique email address for my Tesla account that I've had for almost 8 years and spanning two vehicles. I have never once received any third party marketing/ spam/ whatever at that email address. Only stuff from Tesla.

Thanks for that specific info. I would like to know exactly what ANY of them are scraping, not just Tesla so this isn't about Tesla in particular. I am most likely to use their network though if on a road trip and they are the new charger network we have access to. I think companies should be completely up front about this, so if Tesla is and has been then that's good to hear.

You are correct that I mainly want to know if its syncing phone app data with location data and compiling for marketing purposes, or to jack your insurance rates up. For instance, if you go off-roading and then charge at a public charger, can your car/life insurance company find out and then jack your rate based on that data? A crude example, but I'm sure you get the point.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

We kind of do get things in return, we choose to use our cell phones, credit cards, charge our cars, and surf the web. In return companies collect data and sell it to help them increase revenue. If not for them collecting and selling the data the cost of the services would be higher so, essentially this behavior is helping to subsidize the current pricing of the services we choose to use.

That’s the company line for sure but I don’t really buy it. The old model worked fine but we didn’t have juggernaut tech companies who got that way by basically screwing over everyone else. Idk about you but I’d sleep just fine at night if Google made a few billion less so that the average Joe could have some privacy.

 

[Triangle]

We kind of do get things in return, we choose to use our cell phones, credit cards, charge our cars, and surf the web. In return companies collect data and sell it to help them increase revenue. If not for them collecting and selling the data the cost of the services would be higher so, essentially this behavior is helping to subsidize the current pricing of the services we choose to use.

For sure we do! I use google, I use plenty of things that scrape, its inevitable, but yes I always try and get something in return for it, like email services etc. I don't like giving data away for nothing.

I would rather pay a yearly fee and have zero data scraping when it comes to most services, but that's just my opinion. They are definitely getting the better end of the deal here vs the value you are receiving with the current "free-but-we-get-your-data" model.

In the case of an EV charger, you are paying for the electrons... if the charge was free or discounted then maybe giving them your data is worth it to you. I don't think its cool to pay for a service and then have them sell your data for bonus money, unless that's built into the pricing and you are aware of it.

 

[Triangle]

That’s the company line for sure but I don’t really buy it. The old model worked fine but we didn’t have juggernaut tech companies who got that way by basically screwing over everyone else. Idk about you but I’d sleep just fine at night if Google made a few billion less so that the average Joe could have some privacy.

I agree! These companies have really conditioned us to accept this as "how it has to be." We have to push back and value our data just like they do. They are MASSIVELY profitable in their current business models and that includes selling your data. Sergei Brin doesn't need a new super yacht, but we do need reasonable privacy protections. EU is way ahead of us on all of this.

 

[VSG]

Yeah this sounds like more of a concern if Zuckerberg or Google made a car. Those two are notorious for data harvesting.

As is Twitter. See what I did there?

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