What About That R2 Sunroof?

[SoCal Rob]

It really is a mystery to me why glass roofs have became so popular with just about all automakers.

The only thing that makes sense to me is the dynamic chromatic glass that can change opacity, as mentioned.. The rub is its much more expensive to make.

All others glass roof aspects are net negative from the user perspective compared to a normal roof with or without a sunroof. Ask yourself, when is the last time you've actually looked up through the roof on the R1? Insulated roof is much cooler and quiter inside too.

So if R2 wants to be the cash cow in terms of the profitability and save the company, why take on a glass roof that costs more to manufacture than a standard roof.

I‘m neither a manufacturing person, not a marketing person so I’m probably not the best to answer.

My take on it is two-fold:
1. If an option is more expensive to include but the manufacturer can also sell the item for more as a result or make a sale which would’ve been lost had they not included it, then it makes financial sense to include it.
2. Many times a feature becomes desirable, perceived to be desirable, or required just to be competitive. This may not make logical sense, but if it gives a manufacturer bragging rights or a box to check in a comparison list then it gets included.

I understand Rivian wanting to make a single body shell for each vehicle type, and that body shell includes an opening for a panoramic sunroof. What I don’t understand is why they cannot make a non-glass (metal, fiberglass, plastic, etc.) panel which could be installed with structural adhesive like the glass panel but before the paint application. Then install a supplemental headliner for that area or a different headliner and you have an option for people who don’t want a glass roof. That would probably make a lot of people happy without involving a significant amount of development.

I will say, though, that even established manufacturers seem to err on the side of panoramic sunroof = requirement for higher end trims. Back when I was looking at the current version of the Defender, I recall that you could only get a solid painted roof in the lowest trim with the base engine. With the panoramic roof entrenched as a premium feature, its easy for me to see why Rivian includes it.

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[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I like it. Zero issues. Car cools off quickly with the AC and it does make the vehicle feel more "open". If I had more time, I would probably enjoy sitting and looking up at the stars. Hope my cats don't break it laying up there, but that's more a "me" problem than a design issue.

This reminds me of the (probably trolling) guy on another social media platform who peppered every Rivian post with "Does the sunroof open?" Then would leave ridiculous comments about "Well I think it's stupid that it doesn't blah blah". As we've seen too many times, probably a bot.

That said, they should make a "plug" option. After all, that worked so well for Boeing.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I agree with your original "no practical value" assessment for all sunroofs. We'd take a solid steel roof every time. I tried a similar tinted/electrochromic roof on a BMW iX test drive and it was very unsatisfactory with the overhead sun visible, heat felt, and sending in too much light into the cabin for comfort. One of two primary reasons we rejected the vehicle and they void warranty for tinting. Any reason to think the Rivian solution would be superior to the BMW attempt?

Yes, Rivian’s roof doesn’t make the tinted glass darker by tinting it more as what you describe in the BMW. It sounds like the BMW solution trades an increase in heat absorption for a decrease in brightness. With Rivian’s solution, the glass appears to get whiter as if you applied a white frosted film on top of the tinted glass. The result appears to be less heat absorption with less glare, which works really well in a desert environment. Our Gen1 with traditional tinted glass quickly got too hot to touch in direct sun with 115+ outside temps and with the A/C on where I’ve never experienced this with our Gen2: I can comfortably touch it after hours of driving in the same conditions.

You can see the effect pretty clearly in this overhead shot of ours:

Since you took the time to test the BMW, I recommend you test an R1 with this option and see what you think. If you find it to be a better solution than BMW’s strategy and it’s offered in the R2 then you have an option. On the other hand, if you’ve already decided that it’s a non-glass roof or no sale regardless of other facts then it’s probably time to cross the R2 off your list.
edit: typos

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

I like it. Zero issues. Car cools off quickly with the AC and it does make the vehicle feel more "open". If I had more time, I would probably enjoy sitting and looking up at the stars. Hope my cats don't break it laying up there, but that's more a "me" problem than a design issue.

This reminds me of the (probably trolling) guy on another social media platform who peppered every Rivian post with "Does the sunroof open?" Then would leave ridiculous comments about "Well I think it's stupid that it doesn't blah blah". As we've seen too many times, probably a bot.

That said, they should make a "plug" option. After all, that worked so well for Boeing.

But they look so cute when they loaf on glass.

 

[Sportstick]

Maybe it’s not the right vehicle for you. You seem stuck on the point and determine to complain about it…so knowing there isn’t a choice for a metal roof or a manufacturer installed shade, …research the various 3rd party options or look for a different vehicle that fits your needs

My hope/determination is to raise the issue as I know OEM folks read forums. I did when I was at one. Also, other R2 considerers for whom this may matter also may not be aware of this issue. I will look with the help of kind folks like some here who shared their solutions, as there is time to either have Rivian tool one or the marketplace to identify the need and supply one, as another kind poster suggested he would do. R2 satisfies too many other wants and needs to give up as quickly as some here are suggesting.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I'd like to see someone develop a retractable roll up shade style cover that can be fitted on as an aftermarket addition. I'd be fine with it being manual, bonus points if there were hooks at multiple points for adjustable coverage.

 

[Sportstick]

Yes, Rivian’s roof doesn’t make the tinted glass darker by tinting it more as what you describe in the BMW. It sounds like the BMW solution trades an increase in heat absorption for a decrease in brightness. With Rivian’s solution, the glass appears to get whiter as if you applied a white frosted film on top of the tinted glass. The result appears to be less heat absorption with less glare, which works really well in a desert environment. Our Gen1 with traditional tinted glass quickly got too hot to touch in direct sun with 115+ outside temps and with the A/C on where I’ve never experienced this with our Gen2: I can comfortably touch it after hours of driving in the same conditions.

You can see the effect pretty clearly in this overhead shot of ours:

Since you took the time to test the BMW, I recommend you test an R1 with this option and see what you think. If you find it to be a better solution than BMW’s strategy and it’s offered in the R2 then you have an option. On the other hand, if you’ve already decided that it’s a non-glass roof or no sale regardless of other facts then it’s probably time to cross the R2 off your list.
edit: typos

Thank you for the added information. I never said non-glass roof or no sale, but if there is no satisfactory shade by order time, then I would have to pass...quite different! Regarding the BMW experience, I may not have described it properly. It is what you describe. At the push of a button on the iX, the clear glass roof became opaque frosted white. However, through it during my noontime test drive, the sun point of light was easily visible, interior light was quite bright from sunlight, and heat was still felt, although somewhat diminished from before the button was pushed. Makes sense to try an R1 to see if it's somehow different, but if the same electrochromic as BMW, it's inadequate. They apparently realized this, as the new iX3 with a fixed glass roof will now have an accessory sunshade available via the Parts Department. It would be so easy for Rivian to do the same as R2 has other attributes I prefer.

 

[Sportstick]

I'd gladly share it, if I had the link. It was recommended by a few on this board so a search might turn it up.

Thank you for this lead to a possible solution! Appreciate your help!

 

[srkz]

If you want zero light transmission just vinyl wrap the roof panel. Total cost in the dozens of dollars. Non-issue.

 

[twraps]

Does it come in solid black backing behind mirror-reflective for the roof for zero light transmission?

I can make it from black PPF essentially but haven't thought of offering it that way...generally It think most people view the sunroof as something positive just want to tone down the heat.

 

[Sportstick]

If you want zero light transmission just vinyl wrap the roof panel. Total cost in the dozens of dollars. Non-issue.

Thanks! Among the ideas to investigate as its for both light and heat. Maybe mirror vinyl wrap to reflect? When I raised that at BMW, they said, "sunroof warranty voided" and some customers who had fractured sunroofs from tinting had been out of pocket about $7k, so I need to run that by Rivian.

 

[Sportstick]

I can make it from black PPF essentially but haven't thought of offering it that way...generally It think most people view the sunroof as something positive just want to tone down the heat.

If it doesn't burden your inventory or processes with too many SKUs, perhaps a choice to offer and see the take rate? A reflective/mirror (as with some vinyl wraps) top surface with black substrate might aid in heat rejection.

 

[iansriv]

Thank you for this lead to a possible solution! Appreciate your help!

You mentioned the BMW iX3 earlier. That seems to have the same roof setup as well. The cover is good but not the same as a metal roof. I'd think long and hard about this before you jump in. Not trying to dissuade you. Just want you to have a good experience.


This is a bit drastic IMHO but seems to work for this guy:
Tesla Glass Roof Delete

 

[twraps]

If it doesn't burden your inventory or processes with too many SKUs, perhaps a choice to offer and see the take rate? A reflective/mirror (as with some vinyl wraps) top surface with black substrate might aid in heat rejection.

Let me test it a bit first... might take a while but I want to sure this won't melt or cause other issues. I don't actually stock anything that's like a mirror, but I do have gloss black PPF. The question is how hot would that get and what will happen then. I can test on the small (rear) sunroof of my R1S. I know that with white PPF it's fine because I was developing the cut model with whit PPF and accidentally forgot it installed for a few days and nothing happened.

 

[Sportstick]

You mentioned the BMW iX3 earlier. That seems to have the same roof setup as well. The cover is good but not the same as a metal roof. I'd think long and hard about this before you jump in. Not trying to dissuade you. Just want you to have a good experience.


This is a bit drastic IMHO but seems to work for this guy:
Tesla Glass Roof Delete

Thank you kindly! My wife's Porsche has a full steel roof, as ordered. My current X3 has the old-style power sliding cover and it does the job well, so I think a comparable-material manually installed cover shade should suffice. Wouldn't it be something if both Rivian and BMW have the same Tier I glass supplier and on these similarly sized vehicles, the panels are the same or close enough that the BMW shade fit the Rivian! Too much to hope for, probably.

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