What About That R2 Sunroof?

[Sportstick]

Glass roofs are very efficient for manufacturers. Making only a glass roof on a model of a vehicle allows a less tall vehicle for the same headroom = less weight (probably), better aerodynamics, lower Cg (probably) plus less painted surface for finish flaws. Maybe someday an engineering YouTuber will post a breakdown on cost comparison… (I couldn’t find an M&A video when I searched)

Those are valid comparisons versus a traditional sunroof (other than the paint). The greatest amount of headroom and Cd improvement is with a plain steel roof. Eliminating the operator station in the Final Trim and Chassis line after the Paint Shop to install any roof panel and the more complicated attachment for headliner, fixed or traditional, would save time and cost. Certainly material costs are lower for plain steel , BUT...once the plan assumes there will be any kind of sunroof, which realistically is a market necessity, the costs of complexity for having two species (keeping the steel roof) becomes a burden to the plant, even beyond the tooling investment for the parts. So, I get it that R2 has a glass panel, but not planning for even an accessory shade is a serious omission. I did learn that iX3 will have such an accessory offered for its fixed glass panel roof.

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[Proxy]

The greatest amount of headroom and Cd improvement is with a plain steel roof.

IMHO the optimized option for Cd/headroom is currently what the R1 series has. Steel roofs usually lose quite a bit of headroom to headliner thickness so one has to have a higher roof, worse Cd, larger frontal area, etc. to have the same headroom.

 

[Rivdog]

Yes, perceived by consumers. Design flaw in the sense that it conflicts with consumer requirements as noted by 9 pages of dissatisfaction in just one thread on the R1 forum! I find it hard to understand that they will repeat the same mistake without a better solution for R2. No desire at all for a "traditional sunroof"....either none at all (steel roof) or a decent quality accessory part to install at delivery to shade/block for the life of the vehicle. Plenty of time to learn more and for them to offer a solution before being asked to convert a reservation to an order. Thanks for the replies to help me realize this is a very open and unsolved situation for now.

Yeah, and there might be another with 100 pages of dissatisfaction if Rivian (or Tesla, or anyone else) took away the glass roof. Just because some people may not like a feature doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it.

If we lived by your standard, no vehicle would even exist because someone would always dislike a feature and therefore that feature would need to be eliminated. If you don’t like the sunroof, there are lots of very easy ways to solve that issue.

 

[Rivdog]

Those are valid comparisons versus a traditional sunroof (other than the paint). The greatest amount of headroom and Cd improvement is with a plain steel roof. Eliminating the operator station in the Final Trim and Chassis line after the Paint Shop to install any roof panel and the more complicated attachment for headliner, fixed or traditional, would save time and cost. Certainly material costs are lower for plain steel , BUT...once the plan assumes there will be any kind of sunroof, which realistically is a market necessity, the costs of complexity for having two species (keeping the steel roof) becomes a burden to the plant, even beyond the tooling investment for the parts. So, I get it that R2 has a glass panel, but not planning for even an accessory shade is a serious omission. I did learn that iX3 will have such an accessory offered for its fixed glass panel roof.

Also, no, a steel roof doesn’t necessarily provide more headroom. The Ford Mach E can be optioned with a fixed glass sunroof or a steel roof. I owned both options at one point. The glass sunroof provided about 2 more inches of headroom which was greatly appreciated, even for someone who isn’t particularly tall.

 

[Sportstick]

Yeah, and there might be another with 100 pages of dissatisfaction if Rivian (or Tesla, or anyone else) took away the glass roof. Just because some people may not like a feature doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t like it.

If we lived by your standard, no vehicle would even exist because someone would always dislike a feature and therefore that feature would need to be eliminated. If you don’t like the sunroof, there are lots of very easy ways to solve that issue.

Let me clarify the misunderstanding without it going to illogical extremes. It is not possible to satisfy 100% of course, nor should any OEM try as its a likely recipe for failure with either a bland or confused product. The skilled planner finds the balance using resources available to satisfy most of their own target market. This, however, is such a blantant miss that something else may be happening as there is little conceivable reason for Rivian not to have an accessory solution to the fixed roof, which has many of its own justifications versus an openable roof module. Having a fixed roof is not the issue. Lack of a simple solution for the balance of buyers is. Comments of many Rivian buyers with poor solution attempts I've been reading about this morning highlight the oversight, which would be so easily correctable in the Parts Department, it defies understanding not to be pursued. That is the key point getting diverted by comparing different module types.

 

[emoore]

Let me clarify the misunderstanding without it going to illogical extremes. It is not possible to satisfy 100% of course, nor should any OEM try as its a likely recipe for failure with either a bland or confused product. The skilled planner finds the balance using resources available to satisfy most of their own target market. This, however, is such a blantant miss that something else may be happening as there is little conceivable reason for Rivian not to have an accessory solution to the fixed roof, which has many of its own justifications versus an openable roof module. Having a fixed roof is not the issue. Lack of a simple solution for the balance of buyers is. Comments of many Rivian buyers with poor solution attempts I've been reading about this morning highlight the oversight, which would be so easily correctable in the Parts Department, it defies understanding not to be pursued. That is the key point getting diverted by comparing different module types.

That's just your opinion which isn't universal. I'm sure they did research on features they should include and a lot of people like glass roofs. Doesn't make it a blatant miss.

 

[Sportstick]

That's just your opinion which isn't universal. I'm sure they did research on features they should include and a lot of people like glass roofs. Doesn't make it a blatant miss.

You mis-read my post. The miss cited was not the fixed roof, it's the lack of an accessory shade. The decremental margin for losing even a handful of orders easily exceeds the investment cost to tool a soft-material (not steel) shade.

 

[iansriv]

OP-I did not like the glass roof before I bought the R1S and I still don't like it. Rivian designed a product the way they best saw fit. I had the choice of either buying it or not. I chose to buy it and put a cover on it and add ceramic tint on the glass as well as the windshield. That helped.

Is this design optimal? Not sure, but RJ doesn't consult me on those decisions so, I don't argue. I sold one of my cars after two years because the radio button would automatically turn on every time I started the car. It might seem minuscule to some but it drove me crazy. If the roof is that big a concern I'd look at something else.

 

[twraps]

This is more expensive but has some advantages over a sunshade:
https://twraps.com/products/windshi...m-rock-chips-uv-ir-defense-for-rivian-r1s-r1t

And you bet I will make it for the R2 as well!

 

[mkg3]

I assume that the R2 will have a dynamic glass option like the Gen2 R1 vehicles.

...After getting our Gen2 I realize that this is a legitimate feature which makes a HUGE difference for us and we spend a lot of time in the desert....

It really is a mystery to me why glass roofs have became so popular with just about all automakers.

The only thing that makes sense to me is the dynamic chromatic glass that can change opacity, as mentioned.. The rub is its much more expensive to make.

All others glass roof aspects are net negative from the user perspective compared to a normal roof with or without a sunroof. Ask yourself, when is the last time you've actually looked up through the roof on the R1? Insulated roof is much cooler and quiter inside too.

So if R2 wants to be the cash cow in terms of the profitability and save the company, why take on a glass roof that costs more to manufacture than a standard roof.

 

[Sportstick]

OP-I did not like the glass roof before I bought the R1S and I still don't like it. Rivian designed a product the way they best saw fit. I had the choice of either buying it or not. I chose to buy it and put a cover on it and add ceramic tint on the glass as well as the windshield. That helped.

Is this design optimal? Not sure, but RJ doesn't consult me on those decisions so, I don't argue. I sold one of my cars after two years because the radio button would automatically turn on every time I started the car. It might seem minuscule to some but it drove me crazy. If the roof is that big a concern I'd look at something else.

Please share more about the cover if you are pleased with the outcome. TIA!

 

[Sportstick]

This is more expensive but has some advantages over a sunshade:
https://twraps.com/products/windshi...m-rock-chips-uv-ir-defense-for-rivian-r1s-r1t

And you bet I will make it for the R2 as well!

Does it come in solid black backing behind mirror-reflective for the roof for zero light transmission?

 

[RivAW]

Yes, perceived by consumers. Design flaw in the sense that it conflicts with consumer requirements as noted by 9 pages of dissatisfaction in just one thread on the R1 forum! I find it hard to understand that they will repeat the same mistake without a better solution for R2. No desire at all for a "traditional sunroof"....either none at all (steel roof) or a decent quality accessory part to install at delivery to shade/block for the life of the vehicle. Plenty of time to learn more and for them to offer a solution before being asked to convert a reservation to an order. Thanks for the replies to help me realize this is a very open and unsolved situation for now.

Maybe it’s not the right vehicle for you. You seem stuck on the point and determine to complain about it…so knowing there isn’t a choice for a metal roof or a manufacturer installed shade, …research the various 3rd party options or look for a different vehicle that fits your needs

 

[iansriv]

Please share more about the cover if you are pleased with the outcome. TIA!

I'd gladly share it, if I had the link. It was recommended by a few on this board so a search might turn it up.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Glass roofs are very efficient for manufacturers. Making only a glass roof on a model of a vehicle allows a less tall vehicle for the same headroom = less weight (probably), better aerodynamics, lower Cg (probably) plus less painted surface for finish flaws. Maybe someday an engineering YouTuber will post a breakdown on cost comparison… (I couldn’t find an M&A video when I searched)

It’s mostly manufacturing cost vs all you named. There’s no motorized sunroof, tracks, wiring, multiple spot welds for roof skin and headliner to install. The robots run a bead of sealant and bond glass to it, at one single station on the line. Saving both material costs and time by a large margin. Tesla did it first, at scale with Model S, and opened eyes of auto industry—a way to allow light in and make cabin feel spacious, while reducing a ton of complexity and costs; something they’d never thought to try. In consumer minds, the new cost saving idea registered as a cutting edge premium feature (and now expect it in EVs). Glass is pretty much molten sand. Sand is more common and cheaper than metal. Full glass roofs will become the norm at all price tiers.

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