What would you do? Get LE version (300+) or wait for MaxPack (400+)?

[ajdelange]

You sir are of course 100% correct. You will not get the range the EPA says you will. Not even close.

Well not quite so fast here. Sometimes you will get more than the EPA range. In fact I average overall slightly better than the EPA number but it's only by a couple of watt hours per mile. This is in a rural area so there is plenty of open road but there is some freeway too. Very little "in town" (because we don't go to town much). I've even taken trips of 20 miles or so where the SoC was a couple of % higher at the destination than at the departure point. That's hardly usual though.

Tesla had done a pretty good job here and I expect the same from Rivian.

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[SANZC02]

You sir are of course 100% correct. You will not get the range the EPA says you will. Not even close.

I disagree here. Unless I am driving my Tesla like I stole it I can get pretty close to EPA and my wife often beats the EPA rating on our Model S.

 

[TessP100D]

I disagree here. Unless I am driving my Tesla like I stole it I can get pretty close to EPA and my wife often beats the EPA rating on our Model S.

Ya sorry. I don't believe it. Even when I drive my rocket ship very carefully I can’t come close to the rate range. Sorry.but no

 

[ajdelange]

I disagree here. Unless I am driving my Tesla like I stole it I can get pretty close to EPA and my wife often beats the EPA rating on our Model S.

Yes, that's what I experience. I was in a recent dialogue on one of these sites with a guy who said he was using 380 - 390 or something like that in an X. I asked how he was able to accomplish that. His answer was lead foot always. He too noted that his wife got about EPA. I'll add that mine does too.

So why does everyone think you will get less mileage than rated in a Tesla? As we have seen in this thread some people "see but do not observe" but there must be a lot of intentional FUD too.

 

[DucRider]

To the other readers: You will not get the EPA range or EPA consumption on any trip. You will get close to them if your driving style and the driving conditions are close to the protocols under which the tests were performed (assuming that Rivian does a good job of the testing). Your task is to determine how much deviation from the EPA numbers a particular set of driving conditions or style causes.

To other readers:
You will often meet or exceed the EPA range number.

 

[ajdelange]

Ya sorry. I don't believe it. Even when I drive my rocket ship very carefully I can’t come close to the rate range. Sorry.but no

Sorry but yes and here's proof.

Rated for this vehicle is 282 Wh/mi.

I'd like to understand why your results are different. So tell us which model you drive and where and how. Typical speed? Regen? Wh/mi?

 

[ajdelange]

To other readers:
You will often meet or exceed the EPA range number.

Yes, of course you will (well you can exceed it but you cannot exactly meet it). Why did you feel it necessary to repeat what has been said here by several posters? Nevers hurts to repeat I guess but I'm struggling to discover the basis for the disconnect.

Theory: when I say you will never get the EPA number do you think I am saying you will always be under it?

 

[TessP100D]

To other readers:
You will often meet or exceed the EPA range number.

No you won’t. And if you have never owned a electric vehicle your in for a big surprise.

 

[ajdelange]

See image I posted while you were typing yours. All the trips shown exceed the EPA rating.

So perhaps it needs to be repeated yet again:

If the manufacturer has done a good job in his dynamometer measurements then
1)You can never exactly equal his EPA rating but that's a mathematical curiosity
2)If you cruise for hours at 80 mph in hot weather and aggressively accelerate and decelerate and/or engage in other practices known to consume energy you will not come close to meeting the EPA ratings
3)If you drive normally in suburban/rural settings you will see numbers close to the rated ones. Sometimes you will do better than rated and sometimes you will do worse.

 

[TessP100D]

So tell us which model you drive and where and how. Typical speed? Regen? Wh/mi?

I realize your into the physics of the whole thing. Im not.

I don’t want to work at it either.

want I want is to get in my car, look at the range, drive the car to my destination and back without charging. If my range is 300 miles I’d like to get that. But of course I don’t.

here is a typical journey. It’s 90 mile distance to my destination. I start at say.. 300 miles Of range. When I get to my destination I only show 120 left. That it. What you say…. It must be the way I’m driving … right? Wrong.

First leg is freeway driving And about 60 miles. Second leg is up the mountain to a level of 5200’.

of course the AC is on. It’s always on. freeway speeds are 65-75 all the time, as it’s California. People drive fast. Regen is always on on the streets for around town driving, but it does not add any miles to the range of the car. I use it to slow the car down with the right pedal, not for adding range. On the freeway I reduce the level of Regen as it is not needed on the freeway and the Regen standard setting greatly effects in a bad way the car reacts if I’m using cruise control. It’s much safer to drive with the setting in Low.

you can believe it or not, but my Tesla MS P100D range has not come close to the manufactures range, and of course it gets worse everyday with The batteries losing range. any head wind, and uphill climb even the slightest will absolutely kill your range.

Don’t think for a minute that Rivian will be better either. Tesla has a very long led in battery tech. If they can’t do it how the heck can Rivian do it?

When I say Range Is King, I mean it. it’s real world stuff.

 

[ajdelange]

Just a word to any who are thinking the damn Tesla guys have hijacked the thread to argue about their Teslas: The physics is the same for all the cars and this latest turn has taken us in a direction that should be very relevant for any new BEV driver be it a Rivian, Tesla, Lucid or...

I realize your into the physics of the whole thing. Im not.

I don’t want to work at it either.

You are not alone in this but until chargers are as common as gas stations you are forced to consider the physics or risk running out of charge. The good news is the displays are designed to help you do this with a minimum of effort. And, of course, we'll have to look at the physics to explain why you are experiencing what you are experiencing.

want I want is to get in my car, look at the range, drive the car to my destination and back without charging. If my range is 300 miles I’d like to get that. But of course I don’t.

My Lexus has a 20 gallon tank and gets 18 mpg. Do I count on 360 mi range in my Lexus? No I don't - not anymore than I count on 351 miles in my X (its EPA range).

here is a typical journey. It’s 90 mile distance to my destination. I start at say.. 300 miles Of range. When I get to my destination I only show 120 left. That it.

So you have used 180 rated miles to travel 90 miles. Your "efficiency" is 50%. You are using twice as much energy to go a mile as you would use under the conditions the EPA test is designed to emulate.

First leg is freeway driving And about 60 miles. Second leg is up the mountain to a level of 5200’.
of course the AC is on. It’s always on. freeway speeds are 65-75 all the time, as it’s California. People drive fast. Regen is always on on the streets for around town driving, but it does not add any miles to the range of the car. I use it to slow the car down with the right pedal, not for adding range. On the freeway I reduce the level of Regen as it is not needed on the freeway and the Regen standard setting greatly effects in a bad way the car reacts if I’m using cruise control. It’s much safer to drive with the setting in Low.

What you say…. It must be the way I’m driving … right? .

Right!!. You have just catalogued nearly all the things one should not do if he wants decent efficiency including a couple I didn't put on the list in #85. According to Stats there are only about 5% of drivers who manage to average efficiency as poor as yours but you are not alone. Of course you can't avoid going up the hill if you have to and if you are where the traffic moves at 65 - 75 mph you have to move along and you can hardly be faulted for wanting A/C in the heat.

you can believe it or not, but my Tesla MS P100D range has not come close to the manufactures range,

How do you know that (I'm being a little tricky here)? The manufacturer does not publish range data for the conditions you are driving under. He only published data for the conditions EPA considers nominal. Your conditions are texbook classic ones in which one shouldn't expect to come close to the EPA range. You should have had no expectations of getting the EPA range under these conditions.

I said in a earlier post that this is one of the most difficult concepts for new BEV owners to grasp and your experience illustrates and reaction to it illustrates this.

I would like to point out that regen can add range (or rather prevents the loss of it which amounts to the same thing). There is a simple test. Do you ever touch the brake pedal? If the answer is yes then you will benefit from turning regen full on in town and on the highway.

and of course it gets worse everyday with The batteries losing range. any head wind, and uphill climb even the slightest will absolutely kill your range.

Don’t think for a minute that Rivian will be better either. Tesla has a very long led in battery tech. If they can’t do it how the heck can Rivian do it?

Well Rivian is subject to the same physical laws as Tesla so I would hardly expect anything different from them. For the readers here: all this discussion about Teslas will pertain to your trucks too.

In any case I really appreciate your responding with all these details. We hear that you can't make EPA range in a Tesla (often attributed to Tesla cheating on the EPA rating) but so far in every case I've pursued in any detail there has always been an explanation.

 

[Babbuino]

No you won’t. And if you have never owned a electric vehicle your in for a big surprise.

Quick question, as I'm in the big surprise group, does anyone driving am EV really care about city range? The EPA gives a city and highway [55mph?] expected range, so I can see how most cars will have a worse than EPA advertised highway range.
Personally, the only number I'd like to see is a 70mph highway range, to get an idea of how far on average I can drive. I'm in FL, so not concerned about losing range due to weather or mpuntain roads.

 

[TessP100D]

Quick question, as I'm in the big surprise group, does anyone driving am EV really care about city range? The EPA gives a city and highway [55mph?] expected range, so I can see how most cars will have a worse than EPA advertised highway range.
Personally, the only number I'd like to see is a 70mph highway range, to get an idea of how far on average I can drive. I'm in FL, so not concerned about losing range due to weather or mpuntain roads.

Fair enough.
‘’if you only travel EVER in the city with a radius of 100 miles your good.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm in FL, so not concerned about losing range due to weather ...

But you should be. Water on the roadbed increases consumption quite a bit. Head winds in a T'storm (which, as I recall, Florida has more of than any other states) or hurricane can also steal quite a lot of range.

 

[electrictaco]

Holy crap this thread went sideways...

@ajdelange I don't think anyone was ever arguing that you will meet EPA range numbers exactly. They are an estimate and based on a variety of factors you probably will be under them in most circumstances for highway driving.

However, people exceed their expected range and efficiency on certain vehicles in certain conditions (@DucRider ).

Teslas do this less frequently because of the way Tesla completes the 5-cycle test with the EPA with a more limited correction factor. I think that's all we need to say.

Hopefully Rivian gets some good efficiency on the highway, but we won't know until we know.

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