WSJ: Tesla Faces Expanded U.S. Probe Over Self-Driving Performance in Poor Weather

[Rivianready]

Curious:

1: Would LIDAR vastly improve self driving in Tesla vehicles..??

2: If so, Tesla would not willingly add LIDAR in all of its previously equipped self driving vehicles, unless it were compelled..??

There is no doubt that adding radar and lidar makes self driving safer- particularly in bad weather and low light environments.

These decisions all boil down to cost. Tesla’s camera only hardware is much cheaper than adding both radar and lidar. That being said, both radar and, especially, lidar have dropped in cost over the years. This is why Rivian has decided to use them along with cameras.

Tesla is betting that its huge install base combined with AI will allow them to develop a “safe” product. Whether it’s “safe enough” will be up to the regulators and real world performance. Personally, I don’t see how a camera only system can ever become “safe enough” to allow full autonomy. The liability is huge and I think Tesla will have to add radar and lidar to future vehicles. It will be interesting to see how their robotaxis will perform. I, for one, would never get in a Tesla robotaxi. Waymo has a much safer system consisting of mutiple cameras, lidars, and radars allowing for redundancy. Rivian’s approach is not as robust as Waymo’s as there is only one lidar but it will be much better than Tesla and is a smart strategic move.

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[VandalSibs]

Curious:

1: Would LIDAR vastly improve self driving in Tesla vehicles..??

2: If so, Tesla would not willingly add LIDAR in all of its previously equipped self driving vehicles, unless it were compelled..??

Both might have something to do with a CEO that is so bull-headed that when he gets an idea in his head (no matter how dumb) he can't be convinced to reverse course...

 

[Rivianready]

Here’s what the experts say the difference in hardware costs in a Tesla, Rivian R2 and a Waymo:

System	Sensors	Estimated Hardware Cost
Tesla (Vision only)	Cameras only	$100 -$300
Rivian (Fusion)	Cameras + radar + lidar	$500 - $2,000
Waymo (Robotaxi)	Cameras + radar + multiple lidar	$20,000-$100,000+

 

[Dave Cundiff]

The scariest part about the Electrek article is that internal condensation in the Tesla cameras can cause the vehicle to lose vision (and not notify the driver) even when the driver can see perfectly and so the driver has every reason to trust the camera system.

When you know the camera can't see, as sometimes happens with any system, you can adapt your driving to what you and the camera can't see. Rivian's warning in this case is unnecessary, at least for me, and seems pretty amusing. When I can't see, I assume the car can't see either, so I adapt.

When you rely on the camera, and you don't know it can't see, that's dangerous. I'm not aware of that happening with Rivians, but I am now aware of it happening with Tesla.

***

NHTSA's job is to investigate technology for the purpose of protecting Americans. I hope they do that job impartially, not caring about any of Musk's political contributions and other involvements.

NHTSA should focus on whether FSD and other driver-assist technologies are safe enough to be relied on: (1) in all conditions under which they actually engage, (2) by humans with normal limits on their attention-paying abilities and reaction times, and (3) understanding that humans vary a lot in their ability to correct unforeseen bad situations in a very short period of time while under psychological stress.

Best to all!

 

[Ralph]

Here’s what the experts say the difference in hardware costs in a Tesla, Rivian R2 and a Waymo:

System	Sensors	Estimated Hardware Cost
Tesla (Vision only)	Cameras only	$100 -$300
Rivian (Fusion)	Cameras + radar + lidar	$500 - $2,000
Waymo (Robotaxi)	Cameras + radar + multiple lidar	$20,000-$100,000+

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