R2 Manual Releases on All Interior Doors, But…

[sparked]

I'm guessing you could probably just drill a 3/8" hole in that plastic pull off panel and pull the cable through that hole then attach a key ring loop to the end so it can't pull back through the hole and back inside the cavity again. It's ghetto, but it would probably work and would be much easier to find in a flipped over vehicle at night.

This feels like something where someone could 3D print a handle lever too. Not justifying the design decision. Just looking at the way everything comes apart and it seems like there could be a cheap aftermarket option.

Sponsored

 

[Dasoss]

This is a flawed argument. In the former case, the decision lies with the owner and can be easily turned off, providing traditional egress. With the latter, the decision is removed from the owner entirely and there is no viable method to restore traditional egress.

Ok. So the only solution--barring a regulation change --is to eliminate electrically operated door latches? The issue seems to be that the exterior door handles retract; the rear doors can't be opened from the outside, either. Some vehicles (MINI, BMW) release all of the mechanical door locks in the event of an accident. Some front doors open with two pulls of the inside release if they are locked. The first pull unlocks the door. OK, eliminate folding exterior door handles. How about including an independent backup power source in each door to operate the latch? How many simultaneous, if improbable, failures do we need to protect against?

 

[Zathras]

Someone's going to make a bundle coming up with a physical solution to this.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Someone's going to make a bundle coming up with a physical solution to this.

Tesla already did it in Robotaxi. It'll come to 3/Y by 2027 I'm sure with the new China rules.

8 min mark

 

[Great Gatsby]

I saw that. How freaking stupid and for companies that tout safety (Tesla and Rivian brag about their safety ratings every chance they get), this seems out of touch at best and borderline malicious at worst. I put the orange strings on the back door of our Tesla almost immediately. This is somehow even worse than what Tesla has done because there is nothing obvious or clear on how to operate the rear latches.

Is it a deal breaker? If I had regular back seat passengers, very likely. How much would it have cost to just have put regular door handles? Raise the price accordingly. This is cost cutting stupidity that will probably cost Rivian some sales. What a stupid decision and I do believe we should let them have it any chance we can. Chasing Tesla even at their stupidest decision making. How dumb.

 

[Dasoss]

While I completely agree that there should be a manual release and dislike the push-button door latches; It's not much different than cars have been for years. If the child safety locks are engaged in the back seat with the little slider on standard doors, there's also no way to open them from the inside either.

I don't have anyone riding in the back seat of my car that I worry about opening the door while driving, so I have not had child locks engaged for years. I figure if I need to, I'll keep a window-break tool in the back seat pocket for use in case of emergency.

I think that the issue is that, with folding exterior door handles, the door can't be opened from the outside either. Of course, coupes have a similar issue.

 

[godfodder0901]

Ok. So the only solution--barring a regulation change --is to eliminate electrically operated door latches? The issue seems to be that the exterior door handles retract; the rear doors can't be opened from the outside, either. Some vehicles (MINI, BMW) release all of the mechanical door locks in the event of an accident. Some front doors open with two pulls of the inside release if they are locked. The first pull unlocks the door. OK, eliminate folding exterior door handles. How about including an independent backup power source in each door to operate the latch? How many simultaneous, if improbable, failures do we need to protect against?

Just as a point of clarification, I see both sides of the argument and I genuinely don't know which side of the argument I fall on. I was just pointing out the error in your argument.

FWIW, Rivian also releases the locks in a crash but unlocking a door is not the same as opening the door and it stands that a healthy adult rear seat passenger would have a hard time finding the emergency handle, much less a child or injured passenger.

 

[Dasoss]

I understand THAT, but it’s a safety issue. Is saving a few bucks on a hinge mechanism worth all of the lawsuits and damage to your reputation? Did they learn nothing from Tesla or the Chinese, who are now opposed to these types of door handles?

In an accident people are going to be panicking. The lever hidden on the opposite side of the digital button is one thing, but a protective cap and a pull cord are not intuitive.

Think about who might be sitting in your rear passenger seats: people who aren’t familiar with the vehicle; children strapped into car seats or booster seats; elderly people who may have lost dexterity in their hands, etc. Do you really want to explain to every new passenger in your vehicle how the door handle works in an emergency? That’s crazy and completely unnecessary.

China is actually banning these types of door handles on all new EVs. I bet the rest of the world will follow. Manufactures are not going to want to create more extra parts for different regions if they don’t have to.

You simply cannot have an easily accessible mechanical release in the rear seat because of child lock regulations.

 

[loqueid]

Change doesn't happen without data. The majority of the data collected for this issue is fear, which typically doesn't chart.

You'll live without it, y'all (or maybe, you won't )

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I'm glad my Gen 1 has normal handles (at least from the inside), and that by the time I'm actually in the market for a new vehicle, the Chinese and other people smarter than us will have banned this kind of thing. This looks like some @Rivian

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

Change doesn't happen without data. The majority of the data collected for this issue is fear, which typically doesn't chart.

You'll live without it, y'all (or maybe, you won't )

Tell that to Tesla who’s being investigated by the NHTSA.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/at-le...in-tesla-crashes-due-to-faulty-electric-doors

 

[godfodder0901]

You simply cannot have an easily accessible mechanical release in the rear seat because of child lock regulations.

What regulations are those, exactly?

 

[Dasoss]

What regulations are those, exactly?

Rear doors must have child locks that prevent the door from being opened from the inside.. I suppose that you vould add s mechanical relessee to the rear door, but UT here would need to be an inaccessible selectable override switch. It could be mechanical like the levers on the edge of many doors. The latch mechanism wound need to "know whether or not the door was locked. Perhaps if all of the doors automatically unlocked snd the exterior presented in case of an accident.

 

[Mos Eisley]

While I completely agree that there should be a manual release and dislike the push-button door latches; It's not much different than cars have been for years. If the child safety locks are engaged in the back seat with the little slider on standard doors, there's also no way to open them from the inside either.

I don't have anyone riding in the back seat of my car that I worry about opening the door while driving, so I have not had child locks engaged for years. I figure if I need to, I'll keep a window-break tool in the back seat pocket for use in case of emergency.

I read your comment earlier today and it really stuck with me and thought, "this HAS to be the reason..." and the indignation over not being able to open the doors manually never really manifested with 99% of driver's as they never used the child safety lock features. I'm in that group for sure. On my current ICE car I inadvertently turned them on- and for days I thought "there's something wrong with the car."

Then last night I did a little research, while the auto industry broadly adopted including them based on NTHSA recommendations for all cars from about 1985 forward, turns out there is no federal legal requirement to do so.

There is no law mandating the existence of a child safety lock on the back doors of cars, it's an industry-driven feature. In 2010, the NHTSA addressed concerns raised over their non-regulation of these locks, and maintained in their official reply that there was no sufficient evidence to support the value of mandating them.

The relevant federal standard is FMVSS No. 206 (Door Locks and Door Retention Components), which has governed door lock behavior since 1968. An objective of the 1968 amendment was to protect against children opening rear door handles, but this required a standard door lock mechanism, not specifically a dedicated child safety lock lever. NHTSA

NHTSA's interpretation of FMVSS No. 206 permits child safety locks that disable the interior latch release of rear side doors: the locks are allowed, not required. NHTSA

Anyway - for the geeks like me that go down these silly rabbit holes

 

[Rivian-E]

Is saving a few bucks on a hinge mechanism worth all of the lawsuits and damage to your reputation?

All the lawsuits?? How many lawsuits have there been for a Rivian not being able to be exited appropriately?

Sponsored