RivianTrackr: "Stop Buying EVs for the Trip You Take Twice a Year"

[ElGuano]

My main issue with this is that EVs are still competing primarily against ICE cars. And many ICE vehicles have 400, 500, even 700mi range. Why should we not buy EVs for those infrequent trips that require more range, whereas people are regularly doing exactly that for any other car they would buy?

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[RivianTrackr]

Don't quit your day job, Jose

Not a fan of what I wrote?

 

[DCFC]

My main issue with this is that EVs are still competing primarily against ICE cars. And many ICE vehicles have 400, 500, even 700mi range. Why should we not buy EVs for those infrequent trips that require more range, whereas people are regularly doing exactly that for any other car they would buy?

I've only owned one car with 400 mile highway range and that was a CT200h. All of my other gas cars have been in the 240-300 mile highway range. Not the I ever drove more than three hours straight because I had to stop for the restroom anyways.

Another viewpoint, assuming one has home charging. Why would you ever buy a vehicle you couldn't refuel at home.

 

[DCFC]

Would you have paid $2-3K more for a 800V R2 with the same battery capacity?

Yes assuming: I had significant excess cash burning a hole in my pocket and it didn't delay launch. I have a hunch that trying to make R2 800v would have delayed launch a couple years.

Edit: and it also didn't impact vehicle mass. Lighter is better.

 

[Mark_AZR1T]

Not a fan of what I wrote?

I'm just messing with you. I'm thrilled for your new venture and hope you thrive! Carry on...

 

[RivianTrackr]

I'm just messing with you. I'm thrilled for your new venture and hope you thrive! Carry on...

Maybe one day it’ll replace my real job but for now, it’s a fun time to write and talk about this passion!

 

[Dennisis]

My main issue with this is that EVs are still competing primarily against ICE cars. And many ICE vehicles have 400, 500, even 700mi range. Why should we not buy EVs for those infrequent trips that require more range, whereas people are regularly doing exactly that for any other car they would buy?

As battery tech improves, and it will, longer range at an affordable price point will be possible. Just because EVs don’t match up to everyone’s expectations for every use case today doesn’t mean they won’t. ICE vehicles come in all shapes, sizes and capabilities but it wasn’t always so. I’m convinced what we’re seeing today will soon make ICE’s obsolete for all but fringe applications. It’s inevitable.

 

[SANZC02]

My main issue with this is that EVs are still competing primarily against ICE cars. And many ICE vehicles have 400, 500, even 700mi range. Why should we not buy EVs for those infrequent trips that require more range, whereas people are regularly doing exactly that for any other car they would buy?

I never purchased an ICE vehicle because of the range. I did have a Jeep GC that could get right around 500 miles on the freeway (not one of my purchase priorities) at posted speeds. Truth be told 500 miles at 70 mph is about 7 hours of driving. Even when I was a young pup not sure I would have been able to do that in one stint.

I will say earlier this year a buddy was out with his 700+ mile F150. I drove from CA to MA with him. We did not stop and get fuel every couple of hours but we did stop, use the rest room and stretched our legs. Pretty sure over the whole drive we only had one stretch that got close to 300 miles before we stopped.

 

[Nadus]

"Stop Pretending you Never have to Pull Off the Highway in Your Gas Car"

That'd be more how I'd frame the debate. Anti-EV people love to make believe that they've never needed to stop during a road trip for fuel, bathrooms, or food. There's an illogical expectation for EVs to be able to get to grandma's house without stopping to charge, even when that expectation doesn't exist for gas cars.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I'd better sell my R2 then

 

[2kwik4u]

The amount of time I save never going to a gas station during normal driving day to day more than makes up for the extra time I spend charging on the occasional longer trip.

I agree, and my wife agrees. The data is irrefutable on that front. HOWEVER, the context of importance of time is not captured in that sentiment.

She HATES road tripping in an EV. She just drove from Destin to Buffalo in her Rogue. Made 3 stops and one was an overnight. I plotted the route and it would've taken me closer to 6 stops with an overnight. She timed her stops as well as an experiment. Average was 13min. I can't even come close to that with the Rivian. ABRP says 3.5hrs of charging time. Which would turn the current 19hrs door to door, into something closer to 23hrs door to door.

That is all to say, you don't watch the 10min slip away in the middle of a bustling day, but it's a "full stop" to the activity that you've waited for and planned for several months ago, and are now executing. The psychology of "stopping what you're doing" to refill the cars energy is stronger than any data we can present.

 

[jtm1631]

There are a lot of aspects to this range issue going on.

First, range is an important part of marketing for EV’s. Perhaps it is just the natural evolution of the industry but that’s a fact. So when a highly marketed and discussed EV comes out with a 330 mile range that the company touted, it’s an issue when it doesn’t meet the expectation set by the manufacturer. ICE vehicles rarely market their cars by stating the miles per tank.

Range is important because the charging infrastructure is young. When you start to see a charger at every corner in urban areas or every 5 miles on every stretch of highway, the range focus will diminish.

While I agree that for most use cases, the range won’t be an issue 95% of the time for most people, when it is an issue you can’t assume that you’ll have access to fast charging anywhere you go. If that were true we wouldn’t have so many apps dedicated to charger location and availability and route planning.

Additionally, you can’t remove the connection between range and efficiency. Yes, the Rivian form factor is going to be less efficient than competitors. But buyers were being told that the R2 was as efficient as MY by the company CEO. That’s a problem when real world tests show that isn’t even close to being true.

More importantly, some of us decided to order based on the data we had at the time. I for one even discounted the numbers in my decision. This was based on efficiency as well as range claims. I regularly make a 130 mile drive into the mountains that includes 4,000 feet of elevation gain on the drive to the location. The real world numbers are starting to have me concerned about what that will look like in the dead of winter. Will it get there on a single charge? Definitely, but not as comfortably if we start at 80% SoC at departure when it’s 30 degrees.

I’m more disappointed in Rivian and RJ for allowing the consumer to be mislead by the EPA numbers that they knew weren’t real world reality. I have my pick-up scheduled for today. I’ll be making said 130 mile drive tomorrow and I’ll be paying close attention to my efficiency and arrival SoC.

Until the charging infrastructure is built up more, range anxiety will exist. It’s understandable for someone to think twice about owning a vehicle that they can’t wake up and decide, let’s do a road trip tomorrow, unless they plan out every stop to “refill” along the way. Cars are a symbol of freedom and when your car limits where and how you drive because of charging infrastructure, that’s a problem. It’s impossible to overcome the inherent mindset of what cars represent to so many in this country. Even when it is only 4 trips a year that it impacts.

 

[graytag]

My main issue with this is that EVs are still competing primarily against ICE cars. And many ICE vehicles have 400, 500, even 700mi range.

While I understand what you are trying to say, if we truly compare apples to apples based on use case, I have had:
2021 Wrangler JLU- 300ish miles/tank
2024 Bronco- 300ish miles/tank
2014 GX460- >300 miles/tank
While they may have a few more miles/tank, they were- with the exception of the Lexus- absolutely miserable highway/roadtrip vehicles. I'd gladly sacrifice the distance for comfort while having similar capabilities!

 

[Dennisis]

Range is important because the charging infrastructure is young. When you start to see a charger at every corner in urban areas or every 5 miles on every stretch of highway, the range focus will diminish.

A high percentage of EV owners charge overnight at home, we don’t need chargers at every corner to make us feel better. And the charger network is expanding quickly across the country and into more remote areas. As EV adoption rolls out people will figure out there must be something to it and will talk to their friends with EVs and get comfortable with the change. It’s a process - just look at all the MY’s you see nowadays. RJ and Rivian are helping to make it happen and all this anxiety will pass with experience, all this range noise is just a hiccup.

 

[jtm1631]

You’re missing my point. You don’t need 200 miles of range when you’re home every night charging. The editorial was about people making purchase decisions for the road trips they might take a couple of times a year. That’s when range and infrastructure come into play.

Agreed that it’s a process as I indicated in my original post, but it’s going to be a slow process in this country for a lot of reasons I won’t get into.

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