Driver+ Not up to current Spec - A Deal Breaker (?)

[mgc0216]

You can turn it off. It's not like you have to use it. You may not care about lane centering, but I would bet the majority of buyers expect it, especially at this price point.

i would bet the majority of buyers don't even know what "lane centering" is. I don't - is it different than lane keep assist?

In any case - i haven't had anything more advanced than lane keep assist, auto cruise control, and front and rear assisted braking. If the truck did those things, everything else is gravy in my book.

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[astonius]

i would bet the majority of buyers don't even know what "lane centering" is. I don't - is it different than lane keep assist?

In any case - i haven't had anything more advanced than lane keep assist, auto cruise control, and front and rear assisted braking. If the truck did those things, everything else is gravy in my book.

It's lane keep that doesn't ping-pong and auto-steers to a point. It won't take full-blown turns, but it will take curves.

Also, my understanding is by your standard Rivian is not gravy at the moment. There's no lane keep on unmapped roads, only blind spot monitoring.

 

[rraj2k81]

i would bet the majority of buyers don't even know what "lane centering" is. I don't - is it different than lane keep assist?

In any case - i haven't had anything more advanced than lane keep assist, auto cruise control, and front and rear assisted braking. If the truck did those things, everything else is gravy in my book.

There is a lot of confusion when it comes to Lane Centering. Essentially there are two different systems,

1. The most basic system is the one that does not let you drift from your lanes. These are the systems that you have to do the steering, but in the off chance you steer away from the lines, the system will put some torque on the steering the pull you back inside the lanes.

Most often these systems are called 'Lane Keep Assist' or some to that extent. But they also use it for some lane centering systems, which causes confusion.
These are the ping pong systems, which feels like you are bouncing between lines.

2. The upgraded one is where the car actively steers your car to keep it centered. So the ADAS system steers the car to keep it in the lane. Most of them are hands on systems, while Blue Cruise and Super Cruise go hands free when you are on HWYs that are mapped in the systems database.

 

[rraj2k81]

Just so everyone is clear. It's not that I do not care about the feature in general. I don't care about it in a Rivian. Call me old skool all anyone wants, but like to drive myself in a vehicle like that, not be driving by it (even as something as simple as lane centering. Having something as simple as that makes one a lazy driver depending too much on tech, dulling one's own senses and intuition). If I had a Merc EQS or a Lucid, I'd definitely expect that feature and would make use of it no question.

Like you, I enjoy driving a lot. I have done a lot of road trips, where I have been on a lot of back country roads, where I set my drive mode to dynamic put the car on manual shifting and rip my supercharge V6 S4, which I plan to keep once I get the new vehicle.

But on the same token 90% percent of my driving is commuting to work and HWY road trips. Every year I drive about 1200KMs at least twice, to Montreal. And on all of those trips I would like an ADAS system that would help me just cruise the long boring HWYs.

And this is something I would be doing on a Rivian or any other vehicle. So at the very minimum I would like an ADAS, that can do adaptive cruise and lane centering.

 

[hola29]

Hmm…They literally just started shipping a v1.0 product as an absolute startup. Your expectations were obviously not set properly and you are correct, likely not a fit.

As per the original description, Driver+ would only be available in certain HWYs (mapped routes), which would enable Auto Steer/Lane Centering with Adaptive Cruise Control. Which I thought was a very limited system and had thought would be upgraded when in production to be in line with all the current ADAS implementations.

But now seeing all the reviews I am kind of disappointed that they stuck to their original version, and when you compare it to most if not all the ADAS implementations, Driver+ is outdated. The fact that it is only a Dynamic Cruise Control on all roads is no better than what I have in my 10-year-old car.

For comparison, here is what is out in the market right now,

ADAS System	Autosteer/Lane Centering	Adaptive Cruise Control	Lane Changes	Hands Free
Tesla Autopilot	X	X	-	-
Tesla Autopilot w FSD	X	X	X	-
BMW Driver Professional	X	X	X	-
Ford Co-Pilot 360	X	X	-	-
Ford CP360 w Blue Cruise	X	X	-	X (Limited to mapped HWY)
Polestar Pilot Assist	X	X	-	-
Hyundai/KIA HDA	X	X	-	-
Hyundai/KIA HDA2	X	X	X (Mapped HWY)	-
Rivian	-	X	-	-
Rivian Driver+	X (Limited to mapped HWY)	X	-	-

Based on this Rivian is the least advanced ADAS system on the market and personally for me this is a big deal breaker, because one of the technological advancements I am looking for in my next car is an advanced ADAS system, and at the moment Rivian is not it.

Feels like Rivian built this system to be hands free from grounds up, but like everything Rivian they did not execute this plan, so instead of planning on developing the 'true' hands free tech (internal cameras, sensors to monitor eye/head placement), they delayed it, kept the Autosteer/Lane Centering, and limited it to mapped HWYs.

Hopefully, since I am not expected to get my R1S till 2023, I am really hoping they make upgrades to Driver+, or at least disable the 'Mapped' HWY restriction for Autosteer and allow it for all roads.

Does anyone feel like Driver+ is very limited or is everyone OK with it as is?

I do not like buying vehicles with 'future feature' promises and buy them based on what is being offered when I buy it.
Because there is no guarantee when these features would be made available or when they would be made available.

 

[COdogman]

I have experience with Tesla autopilot and Ford copilot 360 assist. Both systems work great on the freeway. Nothing oversold about them at all. Blue cruise I haven't tried, but from videos I've seen it's coming along well.

That’s actually good to hear. I have not tried anything more advanced than Honda’s adaptive cruise control, so I’m basing my opinion on articles or accounts that I read in aggregate. I know Tesla has taken some heat for the way they market autopilot, but I also read about lots of idiots who do things they know they shouldn’t do with it…like get in the back seat and crash their car

 

[ironpig]

I do not care about cars driving themselves. Especially not my off road truck. This is the least interesting feature of the car.

 

[lmr]

All I want is adaptive cruise control for long road trips and stop&go traffic situations, the rest of it, I don't really care about.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

I daily drive both my Alfa that has zero driver assist tech, and wife's Model Y, that has the full suite. As much as I enjoy my fun car being simple, the quality of life improvement for having Autopilot on long, boring, traffic-filled family trips cannot be overstated. There is nothing manly, skilled, or smart about having to make hours of micro-corrections just to keep your vehicle between the lines on a long, straight road. Having the car do this actually frees up more concentration bandwidth so you can be more situationally aware of what's going on around you. Basic lane centering is not new technology and there's really no excuse for the way Rivian currently has it geo-fenced. Given their capacitive steering wheel sensor, they should be allowing hands-on lane centering on all divided highways, at a minimum. I would have thought the geofencing should come into play for hands-off operation, where the cameras are gaze tracking to make sure you're engaged.

I personally think full autonomous is way harder than most companies let on, and no vehicle currently on the road has the sensors and computational capacity to offer robust Level4. We might start to see it with Tesla's HW4, but I don't think Rivian will be super competitive in this space for a long while. Nor do they necessarily need to be, so long as they have bulletproof Level 2, and a path to robust level 3.

My EDD is end of this year. While I'm willing to make compromises on charging speed and network availability, I don't think I'll be taking delivery unless Driver+ is more akin to Autopilot by then. I would be very curious to see if Rivian will publish a technology roadmap to help explain the current limitations.

 

[Ventura]

I like driving. I'm ok with adaptive cruise control, but I don't want anything else and would simply turn it off. I simply haven't used any available features in the past. I'm with those who find Driver+ (and certainly self driving) the least interesting thing a car offers. Of course I'm happy companies are working on it - if it gets good enough maybe I can keep driving when I'm old and my license is revoked.

 

[ERguy]

Hmm…They literally just started shipping a v1.0 product as an absolute startup. Your expectations were obviously not set properly and you are correct, likely not a fit.

I disagree. Rivian set the expectations.

Have you read about Driver+ lately? The website clearly states it is a "hands free" system. The phrasing is important.

It does not say that it "will" be hands free... Or that it will be"upgraded" or "improved" to hands free. The website says it "delivers" a hands free system and comes standard on every vehicle.

You can't blame customers for being disappointed that Rivian set the expectation.

At the very least, Rivian should update the website to be more accurate.

 

[KingTodd]

"Based on this Rivian is the least advanced ADAS system on the market and personally for me this is a big deal breaker,"

If it is a deal breaker, then you cancelled your order by now, right?

I didnt read through 3 pages of posts, but that seems like what you said the outcome should be....so is it?

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Just so everyone is clear. It's not that I do not care about the feature in general. I don't care about it in a Rivian. Call me old skool all anyone wants, but like to drive myself in a vehicle like that, not be driving by it (even as something as simple as lane centering. Having something as simple as that makes one a lazy driver depending too much on tech, dulling one's own senses and intuition). If I had a Merc EQS or a Lucid, I'd definitely expect that feature and would make use of it no question.

Science does not agree with you. ACC+LKAS has proven to keep people responsive longer on journeys. It’s amazing how reducing fatigue just a little keeps reaction times from being impacted.

 

[Toadkillerdog]

"Based on this Rivian is the least advanced ADAS system on the market and personally for me this is a big deal breaker,"

If it is a deal breaker, then you cancelled your order by now, right?

I didnt read through 3 pages of posts, but that seems like what you said the outcome should be....so is it?

Give the guy a break. He is disappointed with a less than advertised and important to him function. I believe he said that they had a year or two to fix this before he needs to take delivery.

 

[Davethadog]

Meh, I don’t care. Poor implementation is worse than none. Adaptive cruise control is great but I find the lane keeping features to be only quasi-capable gimmicks.

Also, to correct your chart, my polestar 2 changes lanes with pilot.

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