Tesla Supercharger Membership Pricing Announced For Non-Tesla EV Owners ($0.99/month)

[Dark-Fx]

I think we are in the same boat here, that is all I am trying to argue here but others have very loose definitions of unreliable or 'hot garbage'. I guess I shouldn't try to bother to dispel the mis-information but it is hard to resist.

Its obvious that a exclusive network that is integrated with the software of the vehicle will be more reliable. I am betting that non-tesla owners on the network will have a less seamless experience and likely pay more for their juice but I guess time will tell.

I can't wait for the first post here from a Rivian owner saying they couldn't get a charge on any of the superchargers and ended up stranded when Tesla support couldn't help them. You know it's going to happen to someone.

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[kylealden]

The CCS public fast charging network is a hot mess that cannot be fixed unless it goes proprietary. Nobody makes money selling generic water, even less so if they're forced to do so, that's essentially what the DC ccs fast charging operators are doing.

Gas stations would like a word

 

[frostbit3]

I guess I shouldn't try to bother to dispel the mis-information but it is hard to resist.

I just don't understand how you can call that misinformation. We're not saying EA is owned by someone it isn't that's clearly false information, we're saying it isn't reliable. That's not misinformation.





Again, I'm glad it works for you and i'm hoping that means maybe one day it will actually be reliable for the majority of users, but that day clearly isn't today.

More chargers (IE Tesla's) are going to hopefully make this a much better experience owning an EV when needing to fast charge.

 

[AxelR]

I hope so too but I kind of doubt it. It wouldn't make any sense to reward Tesla owners for having split loyalties. If anything they want to wrestle this into a perk (see how much more reliable our superchargers are? Come on over, the water is great, and you can cancel your subscription!) while still using it to get those sweet sweet stimmy dollars.

Agreed. I’m there already. The Rivian will hold me over until the CT finally comes out. Then I’ll decide.

 

[jjswan33]

I just don't understand how you can call that misinformation. We're not saying EA is owned by someone it isn't that's clearly false information, we're saying it isn't reliable. That's not misinformation.





Again, I'm glad it works for you and i'm hoping that means maybe one day it will actually be reliable for the majority of users, but that day clearly isn't today.

More chargers (IE Tesla's) are going to hopefully make this a much better experience owning an EV when needing to fast charge.

I'll state it clearly because I don't think you are getting it:

Unreliable (definition) - Cannot be relied upon. In the case of a fast charging station that would mean people are getting stranded all over the country trying to charge. That is just not the case.

A few posts on reddit about a down stall or two are not going to convince me otherwise. Negative experiences will always be amplified that is how forums work. The fact is thousands of people use EA stations everyday problem free.

Have you been stranded and needed a tow when EA stations were completely down or are you just complaining that you had to wait because a couple of chargers were not working at a given station? Or even worse you relied on the Rivian computer to tell you where to charge without double checking?

 

[dduffey]

Sigh.. first hand report or based on other peoples feedback? Since I easily did a 5000 mile road trip only using EA (with the exception of one stop at the RAN station in Salida) it would be hard for me to agree it is 'hot garbage'

I mean you have a right to your opinion but I find most people slamming EA have never used EA.

First hand experience from me.

 

[frostbit3]

I'll state it clearly because I don't think you are getting it:

Unreliable (definition) - Cannot be relied upon. In the case of a fast charging station that would mean people are getting stranded all over the country trying to charge. That is just not the case.

A few posts on reddit about a down stall or two are not going to convince me otherwise. Negative experiences will always be amplified that is how forums work. The fact is thousands of people use EA stations everyday problem free.

Have you been stranded and needed a tow when EA stations were completely down or are you just complaining that you had to wait because a couple of chargers were not working at a given station? Or even worse you relied on the Rivian computer to tell you where to charge without double checking?

Cool, so your definition of reliable is if you don't get stranded. That's a pretty low bar, and that's not my definition of reliable. I wouldn't call my Rivian reliable just because it gets me from point A to point B, and hasn't left me stranded.

Reliability (clearly in my opinion) takes much more than just "it didn't leave me stranded". I'll leave the evidence of a mass survey that was done across the entire US that shows that EA clearly has a ton of work, and has low scores (Already linked, but will link again) https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/17/23308612/ev-charging-broken-unreliable-survey-jd-power

Again, the results from that study clearly show it isn't reliable. You want to argue with that then write JD Power and let them know you disagree and they need to lower their standards for "reliable".

 

[kylealden]

I'll state it clearly because I don't think you are getting it:

Unreliable (definition) - Cannot be relied upon. In the case of a fast charging station that would mean people are getting stranded all over the country trying to charge. That is just not the case.

A few posts on reddit about a down stall or two are not going to convince me otherwise. Negative experiences will always be amplified that is how forums work. The fact is thousands of people use EA stations everyday problem free.

Have you been stranded and needed a tow when EA stations were completely down or are you just complaining that you had to wait because a couple of chargers were not working at a given station? Or even worse you relied on the Rivian computer to tell you where to charge without double checking?

I'm not sure the debate over terminology here is super productive but I think we can all agree that EA in particular and the fragmented CCS network in general could use some love. I've never been stranded such that I needed towing, but I have had to wait an extra 30-60 minutes because three of four chargers were down.

These problems are going to get worse fast as CCS EVs continue to explode in the next few years - with Ford's projections alone, we're likely looking at a doubling of the CCS EV population in the next year or two, which will make the pain a lot more acute.

Increasing capacity through new charger installations will help a lot! But anecdotally, I would say north of 80% of the CCS DCFCs I've visited in the last three months (at least a dozen), and fully 100% of the EA stations, have had at least one broken stall or other significant issue (e.g. throttling to 50kW, requiring a call to CS to restart, etc.). This failure rate is unsustainable.

 

[jjswan33]

Cool, so your definition of reliable is if you don't get stranded. That's a pretty low bar, and that's not my definition of reliable. I wouldn't call my Rivian reliable just because it gets me from point A to point B, and hasn't left me stranded.

Reliability (clearly in my opinion) takes much more than just "it didn't leave me stranded". I'll leave the evidence of a mass survey that was done across the entire US that shows that EA clearly has a ton of work, and has low scores (Already linked, but will link again) https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/17/23308612/ev-charging-broken-unreliable-survey-jd-power

Again, the results from that study clearly show it isn't reliable. You want to argue with that then write JD Power and let them know you disagree and they need to lower their standards for "reliable".

A. Not my definition of reliable/unreliable it's the dictionary definition
B. The article isn't solely about EA and specifically it states the fact:
"Experts say that Tesla’s network typically works so well because it’s designed to work only for the company’s own EVs." Additionally with the software integrated into the system it likely won't send you to a down or occupied charger.
C. And no I don't care about JD Powers survey.. lol

 

[jjswan33]

I'm not sure the debate over terminology here is super productive but I think we can all agree that EA in particular and the fragmented CCS network in general could use some love. I've never been stranded such that I needed towing, but I have had to wait an extra 30-60 minutes because three of four chargers were down.

These problems are going to get worse fast as CCS EVs continue to explode in the next few years - with Ford's projections alone, we're likely looking at a doubling of the CCS EV population in the next year or two, which will make the pain a lot more acute.

Increasing capacity through new charger installations will help a lot! But anecdotally, I would say north of 80% of the CCS DCFCs I've visited in the last three months (at least a dozen), and fully 100% of the EA stations, have had at least one broken stall or other significant issue (e.g. throttling to 50kW, requiring a call to CS to restart, etc.). This failure rate is unsustainable.

Well mostly this argument started from someone calling EA hot garbage that I don't even believe owns an EV.

I definitely agree that more infrastructure is needed and EA could improve significantly but I think the negative reactions/opinions are over the top

 

[Ralph]

Anecdotally people can throw around whatever they want but everyone needs to keep in mind geographic location and understand how big of a factor that plays in.
It's like saying the snow we get here in Ohio is "hot garbage" but someone in Colorado claims its amazing.

You are on the west coast with many more EVs and where it seems stations are a lot better maintained with a lot more stalls available which is awesome. Much better infrastructure.
Unfortunately in the midwest where I am, hot garbage is probably the proper term for the places I have tried unless I am in a big city.
If you decide to take a trip out here you will find pockets of the country that even if they have the chargers they are generally not working and it may create some very interesting logistical challenges.

This. Why is it that some people *insist* that their experience is yours? Else you are too incompetent to use a charger, too demanding to move to a different stall, etc.

Why does someone want to try to define hot mess for me? Moving to a different charger is at best a waste of time. For an industry trying to move people off of fossil fuel, chargers that do not work are disastrous; even if the experience does not require towing. Customers not having to worry if they can charge is the one and only reason Tesla has made certain theirs work. The first EV brand could not have succeeded without a (nearly) 100% working charging network. If electricity is going to take longer, it as least has to be reliable.

Most people in my family are not invested in EVs like those of us here are. But we would like them to be. If they borrow my truck, they are not going to be able to deal with a charger that doesn't work. Whether that be due to card reader or whatever else. And the ones pulling trailers regularly (several) are not going to be happy when the one stall they can get to without un-hooking does not work.

I too wish EA the best and actually believe with Siemens recent investment they will up their game considerably "soon". There are positioned by accident (fraud) to own a very valuable asset and I believe they will eventually make use of that asset.

I've said in the past I will never buy anything Musk is involved in. I may well have to eat my words as far as electrons go. Make no mistake. Tesla is not opening the network for non-Tesla owners benefit. They simply see an opportunity to expand the network and by extension their brand.

Smart move. Especially if price competitive.

 

[JediKnight]

Will be interesting to see how much the usage at non-Tesla charging stations may decline. Once Tesla’s superchargers are open to non-Tesla vehicles

 

[Lil'Dave]

My sad attempt at a meme

 

[Tahoe Man]

Gas stations would like a word

Gas stations made money by selling services in the earlier days and snacks and whatnot later. I came from a family of service station owners.

Selling electricity in a parking lot is not like a gas station. It is no more than selling generic water in a vending machine. There is no profit in it and there is no incentive to fix it when the machine breaks.

 

[SlaterGS]

I guess I shouldn't try to bother to dispel the mis-information but it is hard to resist.

Careful as mis-information can go both ways.
Saying it is hot garbage may be accurate for one user and saying it has never failed you may be accurate for you.

However both of these are mis-information when presented as being true for anything more than yourself.

For the heck of it I drove my 7 hour trip to family through OH/WV/MD/VA with my Leaf. I planned every stop and every backup with Plugshare. That didn't change the fact it ended up taking over 13 hours what was originally supposed to only take an additional hour over my normal time. So for me, yes, that experience was "hot garbage" and I am thrilled to hear that is not always the case for others!

I love to see the expansion of the infrastructure whether with EA or superchargers, it doesn't matter and will benefit everyone!

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