The Max Pack Will Most Likely Be Canceled - IMO

[AdamsFan1983]

There’s no money in max packs for Rivian because the vast majority of the reservations are pre-price hike. All of this is speculation but it makes sense. Personally I think they’ll end up cancelling the max pack too. People should manage their expectations appropriately.

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[Dark-Fx]

There’s no money in max packs for Rivian because the vast majority of the reservations are pre-price hike. All of this is speculation but it makes sense. Personally I think they’ll end up cancelling the max pack too. People should manage their expectations appropriately.

There is no way their entire margin is going to be eaten up by an additional 45 kWh of battery for $10,000. It is basically the one thing, price wise, that they haven't touched, so I can see how someone might think that they are going to drop it because maybe they just haven't been worrying about adjusting the cost for something they aren't planning on producing.

 

[Bobthebuilder352]

I don’t think this is true. I did head a somewhat indefinite delay from a friend as EVERYONE in the business is searching for a more cost effective production method/battery tech. Ford is currently doing two different battery types.

 

[COdogman]

I think it has more to do with where you live than anything else. What I've been noticing hanging around the forums and reading before joining is that many people from the same service center seem to get their vehicles around the same time. I think the builds are getting distributed based on the capacity the service center can handle. Rivian knows these are new trucks and might have problems, so they want to make sure they can handle the volume of repair work in any given area.

Nothing will sink their reputation faster than people sitting with dead trucks for months at a time.

That would also make sense. I suppose it’s possible more than one (or none) of these scenarios could be true. This thread feels like the forum pre 3/1 - lot’s of guessing and speculation and opinions but without much backing it up.

 

[jbronkoR1T]

I dno, I still think that if they are taking orders for the Max Pack, they are going to deliver them. Now, they could be taking Max Pack reservations b/c they wouldn't want the optics of shutting down orders. But they shut down the Explorer, so you'd think at that time they would have bundled the bad news and shut down Max at the same time. We also know that unlike the R1S, there is a clear path to Max from an engineering perspective, it's mostly about materials and their trying to sell the most trucks they can right now. So personally, I think they are waiting to deliver Max Packs until batteries are not the key element slowing down deliveries.
On another forum, someone with a Max order got a guide but he thought it was just to prod him to switch to Large Pack. But I would only think that's the case if they were having trouble finding buyers for what they're making, and I don't think that's the case (am I wrong about that?).
So I'm an optimistic Max Packer, and I still think I'm getting it when predicted in 2H 2023!

 

[crashmtb]

I think cancelling the Explore package and changing the OC interior was more of a test run for Rivian to see how customers reacted. With that knowledge, they're likely considering what the fallout for ditching the big battery would be. RJ has already acknowledged that battery supply is, and will be, an issue for many years to come, so I can't imagine they're not weighing profit margin vs pissing off customers.

There is likely a lot more time and money sunk into the 180kwh battery than there is some interior trims. And a lot more margin selling 45kwn of battery and magical 400mi range for $10k

Rivisn will be caught flat footed if all the other kids bring a 400mi range/bigger battery and they don’t… having thrown out half a decade of work.

 

[Speedrye]

There is likely a lot more time and money sunk into the 180kwh battery than there is some interior trims. And a lot more margin selling 45kwn of battery and magical 400mi range for $10k

Rivisn will be caught flat footed if all the other kids bring a 400mi range/bigger battery and they don’t… having thrown out half a decade of work.

I still don't agree with the margin argument unless there are other major supply constraints (which there very well could be) impeding the production of trucks. If the batteries are the main supply constraint, putting those extra cells into another truck and getting it out quicker should yield a much higher margin.

Without battery supply issues, I agree that having a 400-mile option would be very good for both the consumer and Rivian as a whole.

 

[jemkewl]

As an individual who
1) made a 2021 q4 reservation for max pack, spare tire, tent, and camp kitchen
2) who then modified only their max pack to large battery in late May
3) and has been driving an R1T since mid July
I am in agreement.

When I get asked on how I got a truck so quickly -
I have been stating the battery switch was the reason I "won the lottery". Publicly traded company has fiduciary and financial obligations to act in the best interests of shareholders. Quickly locking me in to the large battery switch fulfills those obligations.

 

[jbronkoR1T]

As an individual who

3) and has been driving an R1T since mid July
I am in agreement.

When I get asked on how I got a truck so quickly -
I have been stating the battery switch was the reason I "won the lottery".

There's nothing surprising about that though, is there? Max Pack isn't yet available, simple as that.

 

[Ralph]

There will always be use cases for more range. I'll join in the speculation.

Rivian is not canceling the Max Pack, but has delayed it and using that time to reconfigure it so as to deliver as close to 'best in class' when it *IS* delivered.

My speculation is based on a couple of assumptions regarding the reasons for delay:

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1) Confirmed by Rivian - Most people configured the large pack. In an effort to streamline production and deliver the most vehicles, the Large Pack was prioritized. They could build more vehicles with the same number battery cells.​

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2) Speculated - Rivian realized that the added weight of the Max Pack would decrease payload. That would be the Max Pack much less useful for towing. Although customers that tow is perhaps a small percentage of people seeking increased range, not accommodating that use case would make it less attractive compared to what will be the competition upon delivery.​

​

Perhaps, having determined that there would be a significant delay for the above practical and marketing reasons, Rivian saw an opportunity to implement new technology that might address some those issues with the Max Pack (and more)?

I speculate that Rivian saw the delay as time available to deliver 800v architecture, more powerful two motors, and less likely, an in house battery technology.

Potential benefits include:

1) Likely less weight, so that the payload is not so effected by the larger pack. Good for towing and "work".​

​

2) As the new motors are 800v architecture, increased charging efficiency. Important for a very large pack.​

​

3) More power. RJ has stated in a video that the they expect the new motors to deliver as much as 600 hp each.​

​

Just a thought.........and a thought that could mean the Max Pack will be delayed longer than some anticipate.

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[mkhuffman]

For me, it's not necessarily about the time saved, it's about the increased flexibility that the larger pack gives you. Being able to skip a charger because no-one needs to take a break right then can be a big advantage. Being obligated to stop to charge an hour before anyone is hungry equally sucks, because you're either then going to eat while driving, or have to stop again soon.

Rivian, if you are reading this thread, I hope you guys aren't looking at the data of how people are using their trucks to determine if the Max Pack is still worth making, because I know that my charging behavior on trips is going to be different if we are given the additional flexibility, and that's why I still have another R1T with the Max Pack reserved.

^^^ This

Avoiding as many DCFC stations as possible is my goal.

As a new non-Tesla BEV owner, relying almost solely on Electrify America when traveling, I am learning just how poor the infrastructure is. A typical station has 4-6 pumps. When it takes 30-45 minutes to get a proper charge, a line of cars waiting for a charge can form very quickly. And because EA sucks at maintaining their chargers, it is not unusual for two of the four chargers to be broken. A line forms as soon as two cars arrive to charge.

And because so many manufacturers are including "free" DCFC charging, locals are clogging the EA stations. So when traveling, it is not unusual to see a local e-tron or two. It sucks.

I want to drive from home to my destination without stopping and never use another DCFC station. Obviously that won't be possible on a 1,000 mile trip, but for me personally, a 400 mile highway range car means I can get to my mom's house on one charge, and even have enough left over to drive around town before charging at her house.

My office is 143 miles from my house. With a 400+ mile range vehicle I can go there and back without having to fight with the a-holes who park their cars in the "free" L2 charging spaces and leave them there long after their charge is finished. And locals who don't want to charge at home because it is "free" at the office. (Did I say "free" charging sucks already?)

So yes, I will pay $10,000 for the max pack. I understand it will be hard to fit it into the R1S because of the third row and shorter wheelbase. But Rivian still suggests they will have a max pack for the S, so I am holding out hope.

Thanks @kurtlikevonnegut for bursting my hope about the removable roof. I missed that announcement from Rivian. I thought it was still a future feature. It certainly reduces my desire to get one now.

 

[mkg3]

Keep in mind that max pack adds battery weight by another 50%, which is one of the heaviest subsystem on the vehicle. It will simply make the vehicle weigh well north of 8,000 lbs and reduce towing capability as well as decrease miles per kWh.

 

[zipzag]

Everyone would appreciate more range, but at a cost of $10k most will not pay for it. So the max pack will have a very low market share. Over an 800 mile road trip, you might save 30 minutes total.

Towing is a different story because of the distances between chargers. But again this is a small minority of buyers looking to use the R1T as a long distance towing vehicle and willing to pay the extra $10k.

There are a vast number of off-interstate destinations in the U.S. where using a 300 mile EV is inconvenient. Even visiting Yellowstone from the east side is difficult.

 

[Sharpobjects4321]

I think if they were going to cancel the Max pack they would have done it when they cancelled the Explore package. they wouldn't let peeps keep ordering them. More likely, they will be delayed again not because they aren't going to produce them, but because they want to get as many R1(s) out as possible through 2022.

 

[Sharpobjects4321]

Keep in mind that max pack adds battery weight by another 50%, which is one of the heaviest subsystem on the vehicle. It will simply make the vehicle weigh well north of 8,000 lbs and reduce towing capability as well as decrease miles per kWh.

its been shown that weight is not as much a factor in range as in Aero. With that battery pack in conserve mode peeps are going to get 400+ out of a charge. take the Ford lightning Lat for instance. it weights less than the R1T but its Aero is terrible that is why its not getting the range of the R1T

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