Anyone change to a Dual Motor?

[Inkedsphynx]

Sure there is. An icy one.

Ugh, I don't think you needed the fine print to know that's not what I meant. And obviously no other vehicle would fare any better in adverse conditions, so the intent of my statement still holds true :eyeroll:

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[MountainBikeDude]

@SeaGeo the weird part of the convo on rivian stories was when the VP said that through braking it would only be ably to send "about 50% of the power to the non brake bound wheel." That part was odd, but also helped steer me toward the quad.

 

[SeaGeo]

@SeaGeo the weird part of the convo on rivian stories was when the VP said that through braking it would only be ably to send "about 50% of the power to the non brake bound wheel." That part was odd, but also helped steer me toward the quad.

I'll have to go back and listen to it again, i missed that.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I'll have to go back and listen to it again, i missed that.

It starts at about the 11 minute mark.

 

[Thedude]

I'm curious if these people who claim the dual motor is "more than adequate" have actually driven a quad motor R1T extensively?

Because I own one, and let me tell you that I actively want MORE power. These vehicles are HEAVY. That "820 hp" sounds like a lot, on paper, but really it isn't as much as you think it should be when driving it.

Don't get me wrong, it's no slouch... But it's not the electric sled that I was hoping for, based on the specs.

Give me a quad-variant with Enduro motors, 1200hp, and put the R1T on a serious diet (come on, why is the F150 Lightning larger and still considerably lighter??) and then maybe they'll get the power-to-weight ratio closer to where it should be.

It is significantly quicker off the line than my TRX and faster than any truck needs to be. I don’t find the power lacking when I consider that at the end of the day it’s still a truck with the aerodynamics of a brick.

 

[waitinginvain]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Bosch makes fantastic products. To me that's possibly the most appealing part of keeping the quad vs taking their brand new in-house dual. The latter is being offered as a cost savings mechanism rather than being an "upgrade", right?

Maybe I give Bosch too much credit. I'm also jaded by watching Tesla cheapen their cars with every change, so I'm just skeptical when I read about changes anymore

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Bosch makes fantastic products. To me that's possibly the most appealing part of keeping the quad vs taking their brand new in-house dual. The latter is being offered as a cost savings mechanism rather than being an "upgrade", right?

Maybe I give Bosch too much credit. I'm also jaded by watching Tesla cheapen their cars with every change, so I'm just skeptical when I read about changes anymore

Personally I feel Bosch makes good products. Rivians introduction of their in house drivetrain, is a natural progression. The more things they can make/supply themselves, the more control they have, and it also keeps any additional costs related to Bosch profit margins, in house. Which benefits them long-term.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Bosch makes fantastic products. To me that's possibly the most appealing part of keeping the quad vs taking their brand new in-house dual. The latter is being offered as a cost savings mechanism rather than being an "upgrade", right?

Maybe I give Bosch too much credit. I'm also jaded by watching Tesla cheapen their cars with every change, so I'm just skeptical when I read about changes anymore

I'm sure the Bosch motors are fine, but the Enduro motors appear to be significantly more powerful (30-40%) in the same form factor. TBD what the power to weight ratio is by comparison but at least in terms of space they are a significant upgrade aside from the obvious benefits to Rivian of going in house.

 

[SeaGeo]

It starts at about the 11 minute mark.

I wonder if he meant half the total torque. Just half the axle torque isn't particularly interesting.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I wonder if he meant half the total torque. Just half the axle torque isn't particularly interesting.

I wondered that as well, but when he said "through brakes, we can apply some amount of torque variation left or right" and "about half the torque, in some cases, a bit more, but roughly half the torque to the wheel on the ground" he's speaking to that particular axles power. The clincher was when said "in some cases a bit more"

If you could get all the power to one wheel through brakes, then the one being held by the brakes would need to be held quite firm to not be overcome by the motors power, but then also not so much that it can't sense when it is indeed in contact with a surface that can provide the appropriate traction.

I'm curious what the power ratio is between wheels on a traditional drivetrain. If I say put my 4x4 in 4 wheel drive, could all the power be moved to a single wheel through brakes, or is it a similar fraction?

 

[SeaGeo]

I wondered that as well, but when he said "through brakes, we can apply some amount of torque variation left or right" and "about half the torque, in some cases, a bit more, but roughly half the torque to the wheel on the ground" he's speaking to that particular axles power. The clincher was when said "in some cases a bit more"

If you could get all the power to one wheel through brakes, then the one being held by the brakes would need to be held quite firm to not be overcome by the motors power, but then also not so much that it can't sense when it is indeed in contact with a surface that can provide the appropriate traction.

I'm curious what the power ratio is between wheels on a traditional drivetrain. If I say put my 4x4 in 4 wheel drive, could all the power be moved to a single wheel through brakes, or is it a similar fraction?

I agree that's the most likely answer.

Yeah, I'm curious what ATRAC does in this scenario as well. If they had a 4-low on the R1T I probably wouldn't care.

 

[bummin]

I put out an offer to Rivian but it was a no. We have an R1T, and an S on order pre price increase. We are changing to a T once tonneau cover comes back as an option, our guide said the same thing. I feel a bit bad that Rivian is losing money on all of the early orders, so I presented an idea.

I said I would be willing to change to a dual motor (700hp) with the smaller battery as we are sending to a warmer climate. It would be more than enough for our needs, we will keep the quad motor here in CO. I said I would pay my original quad motor price for the dual, thinking it would be cheaper for Rivian to build and balance the deal a bit more for them. I was advised I can change, however I would fall under current pricing (no word if position in line would change) Have to say I was kinda shocked, but at least I offered. I will just have to suffer with another quad motor and get over them losing more money. If only I didn’t own so much Rivian stock as it appears it will take longer to get out of the red.

 

[dleepnw]

I'm sure the Bosch motors are fine, but the Enduro motors appear to be significantly more powerful (30-40%) in the same form factor. TBD what the power to weight ratio is by comparison but at least in terms of space they are a significant upgrade aside from the obvious benefits to Rivian of going in house.

but remember Bosch has been making electric motors for a long time. this is Rivians first, going to be issues in version 1 for sure so not necessarily a no brainer to switch to dual even if you dont want/need the quad.

 

[steilkurve]

I’ve tried to change to dual max pack from quad max pack. Chatted with support and put in the request. No mention of price but was told it would take a few days before the option became available in my account. That’s been well over a month now and still nothing.

After reading and thinking more about it, I’ve decided to simply downgrade to quad large pack. Not sure I have a lot of confidence the max pack will show up in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[zefram47]

After running a bunch of numbers and looking at likely range increase and charge times now that we know it's going to stay 450V and likely only 165 kWh instead of 180 kWh, I opted to drop to the Quad+Large. Just not convinced there's enough benefit at $5.5-8k more and only 25-30 mi extra while towing or ~70 mi unladen all while taking longer to charge since it won't get any more than the current 220 kW.

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