Rivian should focus on features that set them apart from the rest of the industry, not AA/CP.

[astonius]

I haven't tried disabling the LTE radio in the truck to see if it would be happy just pulling that information over my phone's hotspot, but it would have to be intentionally programmed that way, and that just seems like a lot of work for a data plan they likely won't make much money on.

Rivian doesn’t currently support it, however Tesla did add this recently. You can keep your car connected to a WiFi hotspot even when in drive. This combined with the web browser is how Carlinkit was able to build an adapter to add CarPlay support to Teslas.

Sponsored

 

[the long way downunder]

I'll try to keep my whining about your whining about no AA/CP to this thread moving forward. I'll link in threads that annoy me to not clutter the other threads. Other people are welcome to do the same thing and additionally clutter this thread.

If you don't want to see this thread pop up in your feed, hitting the big compass yellow ignore button on the top right of this post should do it.

I think "Rivian really needs to …" build a strong software team and finish the damn product. It's a shemozzle.

Living with the R1T for 11 months ongoing, it feels like they did usability testing and had 100 items left to fix then someone said "enough, we have to finish now and go to market."

Fair enough. Better to publish than perish.

Now, 3 or 4 years later, the software is still garbage. The vehicle hardware is solid except for a few really unacceptable fails:

1. A pillar buffeting
2. tailgate liftover
3. bed depth (height)
4. 180º /multifunction tailgate
5. awkward gear tunnel
6. mid-gate and pass-thru
7. failure of the tonneau
8. proximity key sensing,
9. charge curve
10. efficiency
11. heat pump
12. battery thermals
13. max pack
14. V2X
15. onboard power
16. whacky 12V system
17. winch
18. tank turn
19. rear-wheel steering
20. slow suspension
21. jack points
22. front and rear tire chain fitment
23. NVH
24. closed end frunk
25. spare under the bed
26. camera washers
27. rear seat folding
28. rear seat flat cargo floor
29. cabin storage
30. unused void space in bed sides
31. redundant air compressor
32. sunroof sunshade
33. camp speaker dead space
34. snow damming around wipers
35. headlights freezing over
36. standards for accessories
37. aftermarket product development
38. multiple concurrent bluetooth devices
39. … what am forgetting?

As for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, I have AA/CP on an F-150. It's unremarkable. I'm fine with nav and phone on my phone just going bluetooth through the car audio. The Ford implementation of AA is unreliable (e.g. playing Spotify, playing lossless streaming services, Tidal, etc.) and distracting (sometimes it works, sometimes it takes forever to sort itself out.)

 

[emoore]

I think "Rivian really needs to …" build a strong software team and finish the damn product. It's a shemozzle.

Living with the R1T for 11 months ongoing, it feels like they did usability testing and had 100 items left to fix then someone said "enough, we have to finish now and go to market."

Fair enough. Better to publish than perish.

Now, 3 or 4 years later, the software is still garbage. The vehicle hardware is solid except for a few really unacceptable fails:

1. A pillar buffeting
2. tailgate liftover
3. bed depth (height)
4. 180º /multifunction tailgate
5. awkward gear tunnel
6. mid-gate and pass-thru
7. failure of the tonneau
8. proximity key sensing,
9. charge curve
10. efficiency
11. heat pump
12. battery thermals
13. max pack
14. V2X
15. onboard power
16. whacky 12V system
17. winch
18. tank turn
19. rear-wheel steering
20. slow suspension
21. jack points
22. front and rear tire chain fitment
23. NVH
24. closed end frunk
25. spare under the bed
26. camera washers
27. rear seat folding
28. rear seat flat cargo floor
29. cabin storage
30. unused void space in bed sides
31. redundant air compressor
32. sunroof sunshade
33. camp speaker dead space
34. snow damming around wipers
35. headlights freezing over
36. standards for accessories
37. aftermarket product development
38. multiple concurrent bluetooth devices
39. … what am forgetting?

As for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, I have AA/CP on an F-150. It's unremarkable. I'm fine with nav and phone on my phone just going bluetooth through the car audio. The Ford implementation of AA is unreliable (e.g. playing Spotify, playing lossless streaming services, Tidal, etc.) and distracting (sometimes it works, sometimes it takes forever to sort itself out.)

Hahahaha that’s some unacceptable list.

 

[staytuned]

This post explains a lot. You're quite out of touch with regular people. Other phone OEMs made physical keyboards. They just don't sell.

It’s also a cautionary tale of a company that had physical distinction (the keyboard) and control of their software ecosystem (BBOS), who traded it for a trojan horse OS provided by an advertising company.
It’s a boon to shareholders, but diminished choice for users.

 

[frostbit3]

It’s also a cautionary tale of a company that had physical distinction (the keyboard) and control of their software ecosystem (BBOS), who traded it for a trojan horse OS provided by an advertising company.
It’s a boon to shareholders, but diminished choices for users.

Them trading it “for a Trojan horse OS” was a last ditch effort to save the company. They didn’t adopt Android until 2015, when their market share was pretty hovering around 0%. Samsung adopted Android in 2009 and is now the largest smartphone maker, a title that could have easily been BlackBerry’s. Cautionary tale yes, but for arrogance and failing to adapt.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I think "Rivian really needs to …" build a strong software team and finish the damn product. It's a shemozzle.

Living with the R1T for 11 months ongoing, it feels like they did usability testing and had 100 items left to fix then someone said "enough, we have to finish now and go to market."

Fair enough. Better to publish than perish.

Now, 3 or 4 years later, the software is still garbage. The vehicle hardware is solid except for a few really unacceptable fails:

1. A pillar buffeting
2. tailgate liftover
3. bed depth (height)
4. 180º /multifunction tailgate
5. awkward gear tunnel
6. mid-gate and pass-thru
7. failure of the tonneau
8. proximity key sensing,
9. charge curve
10. efficiency
11. heat pump
12. battery thermals
13. max pack
14. V2X
15. onboard power
16. whacky 12V system
17. winch
18. tank turn
19. rear-wheel steering
20. slow suspension
21. jack points
22. front and rear tire chain fitment
23. NVH
24. closed end frunk
25. spare under the bed
26. camera washers
27. rear seat folding
28. rear seat flat cargo floor
29. cabin storage
30. unused void space in bed sides
31. redundant air compressor
32. sunroof sunshade
33. camp speaker dead space
34. snow damming around wipers
35. headlights freezing over
36. standards for accessories
37. aftermarket product development
38. multiple concurrent bluetooth devices
39. … what am forgetting?

As for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, I have AA/CP on an F-150. It's unremarkable. I'm fine with nav and phone on my phone just going bluetooth through the car audio. The Ford implementation of AA is unreliable (e.g. playing Spotify, playing lossless streaming services, Tidal, etc.) and distracting (sometimes it works, sometimes it takes forever to sort itself out.)

Some of the things you call unacceptable fails are things I prefer being the way they are. The open end frunk on the Hummer was difficult to pack effectively and stuff would have a tendency to want to fall out after driving. I can appropriately pack stuff in the Rivian frunk without the same difficulty. The truck is pretty short with the suspension all the way down, and I can easily reach into the bottom of the frunk.

Though one thing you didn't mention is the gooseneck hinge cover has a tendancy to get stuck on small things that slid under it. It's probably my biggest daily irritation with the truck over anything else on your list.

 

[COdogman]

I think "Rivian really needs to …" build a strong software team and finish the damn product. It's a shemozzle.

Living with the R1T for 11 months ongoing, it feels like they did usability testing and had 100 items left to fix then someone said "enough, we have to finish now and go to market."

Fair enough. Better to publish than perish.

Now, 3 or 4 years later, the software is still garbage. The vehicle hardware is solid except for a few really unacceptable fails:

1. A pillar buffeting
2. tailgate liftover
3. bed depth (height)
4. 180º /multifunction tailgate
5. awkward gear tunnel
6. mid-gate and pass-thru
7. failure of the tonneau
8. proximity key sensing,
9. charge curve
10. efficiency
11. heat pump
12. battery thermals
13. max pack
14. V2X
15. onboard power
16. whacky 12V system
17. winch
18. tank turn
19. rear-wheel steering
20. slow suspension
21. jack points
22. front and rear tire chain fitment
23. NVH
24. closed end frunk
25. spare under the bed
26. camera washers
27. rear seat folding
28. rear seat flat cargo floor
29. cabin storage
30. unused void space in bed sides
31. redundant air compressor
32. sunroof sunshade
33. camp speaker dead space
34. snow damming around wipers
35. headlights freezing over
36. standards for accessories
37. aftermarket product development
38. multiple concurrent bluetooth devices
39. … what am forgetting?

As for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, I have AA/CP on an F-150. It's unremarkable. I'm fine with nav and phone on my phone just going bluetooth through the car audio. The Ford implementation of AA is unreliable (e.g. playing Spotify, playing lossless streaming services, Tidal, etc.) and distracting (sometimes it works, sometimes it takes forever to sort itself out.)

Literally half the stuff on your list are things other people think are positives, like storage and a “redundant” air compressor. Other things, like a mid gate pass through are clearly available on upcoming trucks from other manufacturers if they were that important to you, although I and many others could care less about that. Other things are just unrealistic to expect from the factory, like a winch. Not having a winch that 99% of people don’t need or want is now a “unacceptable fail”? ?

Here is your ideal transportation:

 

[Dark-Fx]

Here is your ideal transportation:

Where do I sign up??

 

[COdogman]

Where do I sign up??

This gentleman will help you find the truck you are looking for:

 

[Trandall]

@the long way downunder, that is quite the list considering AA/CP isn't even listed on a thread dedicated as such!
To be clear you do still enjoy the truck or no?
I agree that half of your list does need improvement but would stop short of calling it unacceptable. The other half of the list I am either neutral on or actually think Rivians choice was preferable to yours. Understand your use case is different than mine so just wanted to get in another data point to any masochist that might actually read this thread.
For what it's worth I 've used AA in my previous Subie and currently in my Mach-E and think it has some benefits over native U/I and Vice Versa. My 2 cents if Rivian included it great since they didn't, no biggie and I don't think Rivian owes a lengthy explanation of why they made any specific decisions including or especially this one.

 

[the long way downunder]

Some of the things you call unacceptable fails are things I prefer being the way they are. The open end frunk on the Hummer was difficult to pack effectively and stuff would have a tendency to want to fall out after driving. I can appropriately pack stuff in the Rivian frunk without the same difficulty. The truck is pretty short with the suspension all the way down, and I can easily reach into the bottom of the frunk.

Though one thing you didn't mention is the gooseneck hinge cover has a tendancy to get stuck on small things that slid under it. It's probably my biggest daily irritation with the truck over anything else on your list.

I'm curious to know what on that list you think is done well and preferable.
I had forgotten the one time I had a large plastic box in the bed, it slipped back an inch, hooked on the top of the hinge flap, and got wedged between the flap and the tonneau cover. Since I avoid opening the tonneau as much as possible. The tonneau on my R1T makes the occasional clunk, which I take as a warning that I should push my luck. So far, so good.
As for the frunk, it's hopefully something they will rectify. I'm 6'1 and can deal with the lift-over, but once the front is dirty and I'm picking up something heavy like the freezer-fridge …

 

[moosehead]

I think "Rivian really needs to …" build a strong software team and finish the damn product. It's a shemozzle.

Living with the R1T for 11 months ongoing, it feels like they did usability testing and had 100 items left to fix then someone said "enough, we have to finish now and go to market."

Fair enough. Better to publish than perish.

Now, 3 or 4 years later, the software is still garbage. The vehicle hardware is solid except for a few really unacceptable fails:

1. A pillar buffeting
2. tailgate liftover
3. bed depth (height)
4. 180º /multifunction tailgate
5. awkward gear tunnel
6. mid-gate and pass-thru
7. failure of the tonneau
8. proximity key sensing,
9. charge curve
10. efficiency
11. heat pump
12. battery thermals
13. max pack
14. V2X
15. onboard power
16. whacky 12V system
17. winch
18. tank turn
19. rear-wheel steering
20. slow suspension
21. jack points
22. front and rear tire chain fitment
23. NVH
24. closed end frunk
25. spare under the bed
26. camera washers
27. rear seat folding
28. rear seat flat cargo floor
29. cabin storage
30. unused void space in bed sides
31. redundant air compressor
32. sunroof sunshade
33. camp speaker dead space
34. snow damming around wipers
35. headlights freezing over
36. standards for accessories
37. aftermarket product development
38. multiple concurrent bluetooth devices
39. … what am forgetting?

As for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, I have AA/CP on an F-150. It's unremarkable. I'm fine with nav and phone on my phone just going bluetooth through the car audio. The Ford implementation of AA is unreliable (e.g. playing Spotify, playing lossless streaming services, Tidal, etc.) and distracting (sometimes it works, sometimes it takes forever to sort itself out.)

Nominated for Whine of the Month.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Nominated for Whine of the Month.

Damn. I'm going to have to try harder for February.

 

[the long way downunder]

@the long way downunder, that is quite the list considering AA/CP isn't even listed on a thread dedicated as such!
To be clear you do still enjoy the truck or no?
I agree that half of your list does need improvement but would stop short of calling it unacceptable. The other half of the list I am either neutral on or actually think Rivians choice was preferable to yours. Understand your use case is different than mine so just wanted to get in another data point to any masochist that might actually read this thread.
For what it's worth I 've used AA in my previous Subie and currently in my Mach-E and think it has some benefits over native U/I and Vice Versa. My 2 cents if Rivian included it great since they didn't, no biggie and I don't think Rivian owes a lengthy explanation of why they made any specific decisions including or especially this one.

The truck is great. The software is rubbish. The company needs to improve its production, initial quality, service and the ownership experience. But the topic was differentiating features. I come from a background of product design and development in software engineering, so my eye goes to the design fails. I could compile a similarly lengthy list of excellent design (especially around the suspension) and Munro has a comprehensive walk through of the production vehicle according to their expertise in lean design. I've learned a thing or two just watching them tear down EVs since their seminal youtube "this is rubbish" assessment of the Model 3. : )

The more generous owner/user will forgive or overlook the points of failure. I don't see any value is praising inferior design, especially now that we're seeing Ford, GM and RAM arriving with simply more thoroughly conceived and developed solutions to the same problems.

A pickup is a pickup because of its bed and its utility. Rivian came up with some ideas, some of which are novel and probably sell the product (the gear tunnel) and some are amusing on concept vehicles, but don't reach production for good reason. The gooseneck tailgate without a side-hinge and the unique latch points for the bespoke racks are two "textbook" examples of when to curtail the design ideal and prioritize utility, function, compatibility and serve the ownership experience.

The non-removable wing that obstructs the bed, and the hatch latch mechanisms that obscure the opening of the gear tunnel … neither of these designs should have stayed beyond the concept vehicle. The omission of washers for the cameras was surely argued back and forth during R&D, and the patently wrong decision was made.

Bollinger and Tesla vehicles were in public awareness during the development of the Rivian, I'd say the Rivian team either chose or were instructed to make an end, and prevented from finishing the job. Surely they would have taken all the best ideas from Bollinger and variously decided what was practical or applicable. Surely they would have set the functionality of a Tesla vehicle as the baseline requirement: anything the Rivian misses from the Tesla would have be justified as not necessary to sell the vehicle and deliver a solid ownership experience for early adopters. The obvious shortcomings vs. Tesla are range and charging efficiency, which stem from design (aero, rolling resistance) and engineering compromises (battery technology.) The R1T looked production ready at launch in 2018. It seems to me like Rivian made the (correct) decision to go to market asap some time in 2020 when they were meant to deliver the launch edition and they just kept cutting features and functions till they could build a production vehicle.

For me, the disappointments have been few (e.g. winch, tailgate, tonneau) but the dealbreaker is looking like Max Pack. I'm not selling my R1T any time soon, though it will probably be replaced by a EVlanche or Sierra (though it's a bit spendy for what it is) or maybe Ford will come along with its TE1 (next gen Lightning) and sufficient efficiency (range and charging curve) to function as a full size pickup for my porpoises. I still have an R1T and R1S pre-order pre-March pricing, those are both potentially worth taking delivery, if Rivian delivers on Max Pack, and if they sort out their business and service operations.

 

[Dark-Fx]

especially now that we're seeing Ford, GM and RAM arriving with simply more thoroughly conceived and developed solutions to the same problems.

Maybe the Ford GM and RAM you're talking about aren't the ones I'm familiar with.

The non-removable wing that obstructs the bed

It doesn't obstruct the bed at all. The space that's there for the gear tunnel and the power tonneau allowed them to implement the spoiler instead of having sail panels for aero. Given that this corner of the bed top have proven themselves to be strong enough for me to stand on when I have a tent on the truck, it's obviously the preferable option for me.

*Edit: Having the void space here has actually been helpful with the rooftop tent. It forces you to have it several inches away from the glass and gives you room to get your hands back there to zip/unzip/stuff. I likely would have had to move it after my first time installing it because of that, otherwise.

A lot of the things you are arguing about would have greatly increased the cost of the truck.

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