Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[Dark-Fx]

Several people interviewed for this piece. "

Carmakers' frustration by now is 'off the charts',"​

Via: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44016347/ford-tesla-ev-charging-opinion/

They should have interviewed me

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[Dark-Fx]

I'm a little stunned to see anyone defend CCS here, at all.

There's little nothing better about it. It's more expensive, the cables/connectors are much heavier, the networks are nowhere near as good in reliability both in terms of working at all and overall speeds.

I get that people are concerned Tesla may monopolize "fuel" but it can be unequivocally stated that NACS (Tesla SCs) >>>>>>>>>>>>> CCS in every single way.

Tesla's way behind right now in voltage. V4 stations don't exist in the US.

 

[Zorg]

Tesla's way behind right now in voltage. V4 stations don't exist in the US.

Who cares? Rivian are 400V.

 

[evhelphub]

Tesla's way behind right now in voltage. V4 stations don't exist in the US.

You might be surprised at how often those 350kW stations get anywhere near that. It is certainly very few most of the time. I've personally witnessed tons of Kia/Hyundai owners complain about it lol.

I will take 250kW and 99%+ reliability over 350kW with far less.

 

[DuoRivians]

I'm a little stunned to see anyone defend CCS here, at all.

There's literally nothing better about it. It's more expensive to set up, the cables/connectors are much heavier, the networks are nowhere near as good in reliability both in terms of working at all and overall speeds.

I get that people are concerned Tesla may monopolize "fuel" but it can be unequivocally stated that NACS (Tesla SCs) >>>>>>>>>>>>> CCS in every single way.

Electrify America is horrible. I took a friend of mine on a mini-road trip and had to stop at 3 different EA stations, none of the first chargers we tried work. At one, we got stuck there for 30 minutes calling customer support to have them reset a charger and only 1/3 chargers had full speed available for us, the other two were slower than they should have been based on state of charge.

My friend, who has never been in an EV before said "man, are they all like this? I can see why people don't want an EV." I had to tell him that no, Tesla's SCs are actually quite good to which he responded that maybe I should buy another Tesla instead.

I could tell you countless annoying stories with EA from the charger not recognizing that I am no longer plugged in which made it so I couldn't plug in at any other station or location, to randomly stopping charge without notifying me just to come back 20 minutes later to a battery that isn't full, we purposely do not take our CCS-based EV on road trips anymore because of it.

I strongly defend CCS. It is the open standard and is not influenced at all by Tesla. It is not the size of the port. It is about removing control by Tesla on the entire EV industry.

 

[evhelphub]

I strongly defend CCS. It is the open standard and is not influenced at all by Tesla. It is not the size of the port. It is about removing control by Tesla on the entire EV industry.

OK, I can understand that view point. However, I do think something needs to happen if it is going to remain around long-term. It is not a good experience for many, including myself, right now.

 

[Dark-Fx]

You might be surprised at how often those 350kW stations get anywhere near that. It is certainly very few most of the time. I've personally witnessed tons of Kia/Hyundai owners complain about it lol.

I will take 250kW and 99%+ reliability over 350kW with far less.

I got 250kW plus every time I charged my Hummer EV at an EA station on our trip from Detroit to South Florida and back, so no, I wouldn't be surprised. That was before GM bumped up the charge rate on them. 22-25 minutes to put in 90 kWh. We had to skip one station on that trip because two were down and the other two were occupied. It was not a big deal at all because the size of the battery trivialized needing to.

 

[SANZC02]

You might be surprised at how often those 350kW stations get anywhere near that. It is certainly very few most of the time. I've personally witnessed tons of Kia/Hyundai owners complain about it lol.

I will take 250kW and 99%+ reliability over 350kW with far less.

Tesla still has a lot of 72 and 150 superchargers. I would guess more than half are not 250 currently.

Don’t get me wrong, I have free super charging so use them all of the time, probably more than 1000 sessions so far on the Model S. I am happy with the performance I get from them as my car cannot even do 150 kW, I think it maxes out around 120.

I just don’t like that all of the exaggerated complaining may dissuade people from getting into an EV. I just want everyone to take what people are saying with a grain of salt and form their own opinion based on their experiences.

As I have said in a couple of posts already, if Tesla came up with an adapter to use on the Rivian I certainly would purchase one to get the extra availability.

 

[DuoRivians]

OK, I can understand that view point. However, I do think something needs to happen if it is going to remain around long-term. It is not a good experience for many, including myself, right now.

More reliable chargers and more of them. Adding Tesla superchargers is a positive, yes. But this can be solved by providing an adapter. It requires no real commitment from Rivian and greatly benefits the consumer.

 

[evhelphub]

I got 250kW plus every time I charged my Hummer EV at an EA station on our trip from Detroit to South Florida and back, so no, I wouldn't be surprised. That was before GM bumped up the charge rate on them. 22-25 minutes to put in 90 kWh. We had to skip one station on that trip because two were down and the other two were occupied. It was not a big deal at all because the size of the battery trivialized needing to.

I hear you and don't want to discount your experience. All I can really say is that I don't think Ford does this if the charging experience feedback they've been getting is good. It speaks for itself in that regard.

 

[docwhiz]

As pointed out in the Munro video. NACS only has two power cables whereas CCS has four so it's more complicated and expensive to install in the vehicle.

 

[manitou202]

I strongly defend CCS. It is the open standard and is not influenced at all by Tesla. It is not the size of the port. It is about removing control by Tesla on the entire EV industry.

This right here.

Is the CCS plug worse than the NACS plug? Sure, it's bigger, but if you use an updated EA or Chargepoint charger with the longer more flexible cables, it's not an issue.

Is CCS reliable? Yes, just as reliable as NACS. However, CCS charge networks tend to be not as reliable. This has nothing to do with the standard. If EA converts all of their plugs to NACS the same exact problems would exist.

The point is we need more than one reliable charging network, and we need an open standard. If one company controls the standard or is the only reliable network we will have problems in the future and will also be at the mercy of a single company.

I don't care which plug wins the plug war, but it needs to be an open standard with no ties to a single automaker. We also desperately need more charging networks from other companies that can provide similar reliability to the Tesla network.

 

[scottf200]

Love people with opinions that refuse to identify themselves…. ?

Valid reasons. But these are not Joe Blow on internet forums like all of us. They are people in the industry and car manufacturers (ala wide sampling of data). The author has a very long history and depth of knowledge and contacts. He has decades of experience and contacts. I've followed him for many many years.

Bold -->
"one source—who, like the other five interviewed for this piece, insisted on anonymity to preserve industry confidentiality. "

 

[Zorg]

This right here.

Is the CCS plug worse than the NACS plug? Sure, it's bigger, but if you use an updated EA or Chargepoint charger with the longer more flexible cables, it's not an issue.

Is CCS reliable? Yes, just as reliable as NACS. However, CCS charge networks tend to be not as reliable. This has nothing to do with the standard. If EA converts all of their plugs to NACS the same exact problems would exist.

The point is we need more than one reliable charging network, and we need an open standard. If one company controls the standard or is the only reliable network we will have problems in the future and will also be at the mercy of a single company.

I don't care which plug wins the plug war, but it needs to be an open standard with no ties to a single automaker. We also desperately need more charging networks from other companies that can provide similar reliability to the Tesla network.

Nope. Just needs a good contract to get and guarantee access to the Tesla SC. Not a big deal. Either that or get someone to build a nationwide reliable CCS network.

 

[Autolycus]

I'm a little stunned to see anyone defend CCS here, at all.

I get that people are concerned Tesla may monopolize "fuel" but it can be unequivocally stated that NACS (Tesla SCs) >>>>>>>>>>>>> CCS in every single way.

It's superior in every way except for the most critical to customers and vehicle manufacturers: it's not an open standard that is controlled by an independent organization, with IP that is useable without significant conditions. It's kind of a problem that if "NACS" were to become the single standard, a vehicle manufacturer could suddenly change course with the standard and destroy its competitors.

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