GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[zefram47]

At the end of the day, I don't care which adapter is used, so long as:

1. No one player has dominance over plug standard
2. Plenty of DCFC suppliers can exist, so that a single player (or few) can't exhibit extraordinary profit, e.g. surcharge per kwh. The last thing I want is to buy gas only from a Chevron or Shell.

To use that analogy, we already have fuel pumps with both diesel and gas handles. Much like CHAdeMO and CCS have coexisted, hopefully CCS and Tesla can coexist indefinitely.

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[opnwide]

 

[C12farmer]

Is this actually a good thing for Tesla? Wasn't one of their main advantages the supercharger network. Eventually anyone can use it, so there is much less motivation to need to buy a Tesla to use it.

Tesla drivers won't be happy with all these outsiders invading their exclusive chargers.

How much money can Tesla really make just selling electrons?

 

[p3ck]

NACS has no ability to do V2H or V2Anything...

 

[Autolycus]

NACS has no ability to do V2H or V2Anything...

Which raises the big question about Ford’s switch: are they just going to vanish all that marketing effort they put into the power supply side of things?

We’ll have to see how some things play out, but if the dominoes really do fall completely, Elon’s in for some really intense anti-competition investigations.

 

[kallisti5]

NACS has no ability to do V2H or V2Anything...

I think it does, they're bolting all this stuff via the CCS protocol onto the NACS "physical standard".

I personally hate the decision to move to NACS. The reason CCS is unreliable is because of the shit networks implementing it. It's not a problem with the physical connector.

The thin NACS plugs are kinda delicate.. i see a lot of them busted on EVGO stations where maintenance is less often.

tldr; the industry is making this change because of a lot of opinions and feels not technically based in data.

With all of that said.. with Ford and GM now pushing NACS.. the physical CCS connector is dead.

 

[virgnia_rivian]

Haha! In all fairness, Beta was the superior format, but Sony wouldn’t license the tech, JVC was happy to license VHS and consumers ended up with cheap VHS. The pro market relied on Beta into the 2000’s! ?

 

[MaskedRacerX]

So, can Tesla make the adapter available universally now?

NACS can be done with a CCS port, using a Tesla supplied adapter - and obviously the backend services have to be integrated - so there's some protocols that have to be implemented on the vehicle side and an agreement/integration on the software side.

Which is different than Magic Dock which is the adapter, but the billing handled through the Tesla app, and having to manually select the stall, start charging - so that kind of Supercharger will work with a Rivian right out of the box (so to speak)

There's 3 options for a non-Tesla vehicle to use a Supercharger:

• Magic Dock - any CCS vehicle, uses the Tesla app for billing, charging engagement, etc.
• NACS over CCS - requires Tesla supplied adapter and CCS updates on the vehicle side, uses the native manufacturer app
• NACS over Tesla - no adapter, native manufacturer app (like above)

Ford said they'd be physical CCS up to 2025, so all those cars will use NACS over CCS (via adapter)

 

[zefram47]

Haha! In all fairness, Beta was the superior format, but Sony wouldn’t license the tech, JVC was happy to license VHS and consumers ended up with cheap VHS. The pro market relied on Beta into the 2000’s! ?

Betamax actually wasn't better. This video talks mainly about Betacam (totally different), but sets the stage by talking about why Betamax didn't succeed.

 

[bd5400]

This is really exciting news! CCS is dead. You won't be missed.

CCS is not dead, and that’s part of the problem. Everyone can cheer GM signing on board as well, but until CCS is actually dead, this is just annoying fragmentation that is bad for the consumer.

GM and Ford are not the only car companies. VW, Rivian, Lucid, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Volvo, Polestar, Nissan, and so on have not committed to making the switch. Moreover, both GM and Ford will be producing and selling vehicles with a CCS plug in the short term.

So now current owners are existing in a world where the charging plug standard built into their vehicles may be functionally obsolete in a few years, and if Tesla doesn’t make a widely available adapter it will crush resale value of already expensive EVs. Buyers in the market are now stuck with the decision of whether they should buy ANY non-Tesla EV right now for fear that the charging plug equipped across the industry will be out of use soon. Charging network operators now have to deal with a potential change in the dominant standard, which could slow rollout of infrastructure over the next few years.

I am in no way advocating for CCS, as the plug is truly terrible, but NACS is far from a done deal across the industry and until it is, the outlook for current non-Tesla owners and buyers in the EV market is murky.

 

[virgnia_rivian]

One question worth asking, since the federal government is incentivizing charging and handing out $$, should they join the conversation to get everyone on the same standard? That’s pretty much what happened in the EU.

 

[kallisti5]

CCS is not dead, and that’s part of the problem. Everyone can cheer GM signing on board as well, but until CCS is actually dead, this is just annoying fragmentation that is bad for the consumer.

Nah. it's dead mate. I personally really don't want NACS.. but with Ford and GM going NACS... CCS as a physical standard is dead moving forward in the US.

Ford and GM are massive producers of vehicles and are most likely to be the "every person's EV". Bulk numbers win every time.

RIP CCS:
* A fine chonky physical connector
* Killed by poor perceptions of the standard caused by Electrify America being general shite.
* Tldr; Giovani Palazzo of EA killed CCS via maintenance incompetence

 

[lefkonj]

Will be via an adapter first and then with dual ports in the future. What a sh!t show. They should have all gone into the CCS standard full bore but it is easier to sell an EV that works with Tesla.

 

[virgnia_rivian]

Betamax actually wasn't better. This video talks mainly about Betacam (totally different), but sets the stage by talking about why Betamax didn't succeed.

Lol. Yes I know the difference. I worked in broadcast in the 90’s and 2000’s and there is a difference between Betamax and Betacam/BetacamSP and eventually DigiBeta.

 

[bd5400]

Nah. it's dead mate. I personally really don't want NACS.. but with Ford and GM going NACS... CCS as a physical standard is dead moving forward in the US.

Ford and GM are massive producers of vehicles and are most likely to be the "every person's EV". Bulk numbers win every time.

It literally isn’t. You repeating it doesn’t make it true.

Will it be dead in the future? Possibly. Is the writing on the wall? Sure. But it isn’t dead.

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