GM adopts Tesla's NACS standard! Munro begs Rivian to switch

[Utecitec]

How much public charging do drivers actually use? In my 10 years of Tesla ownership with unlimited Supercharging I think I still home charged for at least 95% of the charging
It will be adapters for all. That way Tesla can maximize the Government paybacks for charging infrastructure.

When I lived in LA they where pretty full, I imagine it's similar in other large cities where many people live in apartments.

Regardless, for any road trip they are a necessity, and I'd rather use a supercharger than hope that the EA station I stop at works. I've never seen a supercharger with every stall down, but I have seen a few EA stations with no working chargers.

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[SANZC02]

It's true that you can still charge them but what about resale? Would you buy a car with Chademo today?

I would not and it is possible in 5 or 10 years I would not buy one with CCS either, depends on how everything plays out.

I’m just saying the life of existing CCS plug vehicles today is nothing I’m concerned about and would not be part of my decision. Both Ford and GM are talking about 2025, my R1S will be going on 4 years old by the time those hit the market.

 

[jjswan33]

I would not and it is possible in 5 or 10 years I would not buy one with CCS either, depends on how everything plays out.

I’m just saying the life of existing CCS plug vehicles today is nothing I’m concerned about and would not be part of my decision. Both Ford and GM are talking about 2025, my R1S will be going on 4 years old by the time those hit the market.

To be fair I'm not terribly concerned either I just don't understand current Rivian owners lobbying for the change to NACS. Assuming Elon follows through on his commitment he will open 7500 Tesla SC to others by the end of next year. Also any infrastructure Ford/GM add will also likely include CCS for their current owners. My guess is these obituaries are bit premature especially with CCS use in other markets.

 

[DuoRivians]

I always thought that was a silly ruling. If they prevented other browsers from being installed I would agree but saying it was anti-competitive because people would use IE and not install other browsers in my simple mind was a huge stretch.

When Microsoft’s OS was on 90+% of computers, it’s not silly to presume Microsoft would use their market position to influence customers’ behaviors.

One could say that if Superchargers represent a significant majority of DCFC chargers and Tesla is using their discretion to allow access, that’s anti-competitive

 

[NY_Rob]

How many RAN stations are there presently? 50 maybe? Wouldn't take much to switch them over to NACS. RJ just has to get down on his knees and kiss the king's ring to get the ball rolling....

 

[Jarico75]

I think you misunderstand. If anyone can use it without paying royalties, then it’s fine. But if royalties are involved and/or Tesla gets to decide which auto oem or DCFC provider can use the Tesla plug or supercharger, then it can be deemed anticompetitive.

Microsoft shipping windows with IE built in was considered anti-competitive

I think you misunderstand. Having a patent is the fundamental basis of our free market. There are patents involved in today's gas pumps. There are tons of components on your Rivian that are patented by other companies. Those patent holders get compensated whether you think it is fair or not.
I agree there are activities that Tesla could engage in that could be deemed anticompetitive, but just because they own the patent doesn't mean they will engage in illegal activity.

 

[mini2nut]

We have never encountered an inoperable Tesla Supercharger in over 2-years of Model Y ownership. It’s a superior charging network.

With the leaked Cybertruck production info by a supplier today, 375,000 CT’s a year, it’s going to get interesting in the BEV pickup space. The Cybertruck delivery event is supposed to happen in late August. Similar to Rivian, all of them will be going to employees and suppliers.

If Tesla prices the Dual Motor Cybertruck at $69,900 it’s going to have a major impact on Lightning and Rivian R1T sales. MSRP’s and trims should be revealed at the CT delivery event.

https://electrek.co/2023/06/08/tesl...ucks-per-year-release-candidates-late-august/

 

[Jarico75]

We have never encounterEd an inoperable Tesla Supercharger in over 2-years of Model Y ownership. It’s a superior charging network.

With the leaked Cybertruck production info by a supplier, 375,000 CT’s a year, it’s going to get interesting in the BEV pickup space.

If Tesla prices the Dual Motor Cybertruck at $65k it’s going to impact Lightning and Rivian sales.

https://electrek.co/2023/06/08/tesl...ucks-per-year-release-candidates-late-august/

Have seen several inoperable stations. Most due to vandalism, but a couple due to legitimate issues. What we have never experienced is all chargers in operable at a station. With the CCS we have run across this issue multiple times.

 

[MDH]

Is this actually a good thing for Tesla? Wasn't one of their main advantages the supercharger network. Eventually anyone can use it, so there is much less motivation to need to buy a Tesla to use it.

Tesla drivers won't be happy with all these outsiders invading their exclusive chargers.

How much money can Tesla really make just selling electrons?

I don't agree. I own a Tesla along with the R1T. Anything that spurs EV adoption is a positive. Everyday Tesla adds more SCs in North America. This will just accelerate.

How much money? Are you kidding? Just look at Tesla's stock movement since Farley announced and you'll find your answer.

 

[SANZC02]

….and Tesla is using their discretion to allow access, that’s anti-competitive

This part I completely agree with, that is why I would like to see the agreements from Ford and GM and see the plugs on other Networks.

The only way it could work is if anyone was free to use the connectors and plugs on there vehicles and chargers and that it becomes a standard that Tesla could not change on their own.

 

[izgoy]

Nah. it's dead mate. I personally really don't want NACS.. but with Ford and GM going NACS... CCS as a physical standard is dead moving forward in the US.

Ford and GM are massive producers of vehicles and are most likely to be the "every person's EV". Bulk numbers win every time.

RIP CCS:
* A fine chonky physical connector
* Killed by poor perceptions of the standard caused by Electrify America being general shite.
* Tldr; Giovani Palazzo of EA killed CCS via maintenance incompetence

CCS is not dead. CCS1 is dead.

 

[Autolycus]

I always thought that was a silly ruling. If they prevented other browsers from being installed I would agree but saying it was anti-competitive because people would use IE and not install other browsers in my simple mind was a huge stretch.

They also nerfed the competition by not allowing access to certain critical APIs. Similar to what Apple does with iOS, but Apple’s been able to get away with it because they don’t dominate the cell phone market like MS dominated the PC OS market.

 

[COdogman]

Don't forget HD vs Blu-ray. I didn't fare well in that fight...

laserdisc all the way!!

 

[mkg3]

After reading some of (too many posts to read all of..) discussion between this thread and the one for Ford, it is very clear that the both F and GM analyzed their respective business case and going with Tesla's NACS made more sense to both companies.

Additionally, this act by both will force EA, EVgo and alike to up their game and be competitive with Superchargers in terms of availability, reliability and ease of use or go out of business.

While some of you guys are having a real hard time accepting that this is a good thing because its Tesla/Elon originated, the jist and the short of it is a win-win for all of us EV drivers.

My bet is that EA and others will get lot better very quickly and aggregately, we'll have far more access to charge stations throughout the country.

Just hope that Rivian does too.

 

[mini2nut]

Stellantis should be the domino to fall. I expect an announcement very shortly.

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