Can Tesla Keep Rivian Out

[FrankieJ]

Now that GM and Ford are transitioning to NACS and Elon is allowing them to use Tesla’s supercharger network can Tesla deny Rivian’s right to do the same? In other words, if Rivian or a third party developed an adapter that will allow Rivian‘s to charge at Tesla superchargers do the legal experts in the group think Tesla could lock them out of their network? Sort of reminds me of the requirement that Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile make their networks available to third parties in order to promote competition.

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[WSea]

Elon will do what Elon wants. Don't become dependent on Elon.

 

[MP3Mike]

Now that GM and Ford are transitioning to NACS and Elon is allowing them to use Tesla’s supercharger network can Tesla deny Rivian’s right to do the same?

I would think they can. And likely will, at least until Tesla's lawsuit against Rivian for IP theft is resolved.

 

[connoisseurr]

I guess they could, but don’t see why they would… NACS a passive revenue stream for Tesla.

Tesla will become the next SkyNet ?

 

[mkennedy1996]

Now that GM and Ford are transitioning to NACS and Elon is allowing them to use Tesla’s supercharger network can Tesla deny Rivian’s right to do the same? In other words, if Rivian or a third party developed an adapter that will allow Rivian‘s to charge at Tesla superchargers do the legal experts in the group think Tesla could lock them out of their network? Sort of reminds me of the requirement that Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile make their networks available to third parties in order to promote competition.

There are two elements here:

1. Use of the NACS connector
2. Access to the Supercharger network

They have offered the NACS as an open "standard", therefore they could not prevent Rivian from using the connector in their cars and RAN stations.

However, the Supercharger network was developed with a significant capital investment. The GM and Ford deals likely included a capital investment in additional stations. This was a negotiated deal(s). So if Rivian and Tesla were unable to negotiate a deal, they Tesla could legally keep them out of the network that they spent huge sums of money to put into place.

 

[COdogman]

Now that GM and Ford are transitioning to NACS and Elon is allowing them to use Tesla’s supercharger network can Tesla deny Rivian’s right to do the same? In other words, if Rivian or a third party developed an adapter that will allow Rivian‘s to charge at Tesla superchargers do the legal experts in the group think Tesla could lock them out of their network? Sort of reminds me of the requirement that Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile make their networks available to third parties in order to promote competition.

Yes, as it is currently set up he could keep them out If he chose to.

Tesla claims its patents are “open to all” except they still own them and have ”pledged” (meaningless term) to not sue anyone who uses their patents in “good faith”. Except they also get to define “good faith” and could change that definition at any time they feel like it.

Any company that would attempt to include Tesla’s plug or port without a contract would be taking a significant legal risk.

https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources#patent-pledge

 

[s4wrxttcs]

NACS is a complete failure of a standard if Tesla leverages it to block out competitors. Either competitors in manufacturing vehicles or charging competitors.

This doesn't mean that Tesla won't do this, but I believe by doing so they would kill any federal funding for NACS based chargers unless the chargers had the minimum of CCS ports.

I understand the desire to use Superchargers, and I understand the preference for the smaller NACS port. But, I fail to see why any EV fan would pin their hopes on NACS until Tesla demonstrates that its a truly open standard in the way that CCS is.

 

[mkg3]

...and Elon is allowing them to use Tesla’s supercharger network can Tesla deny Rivian’s right to do the same? ...

Two things:

1) Elon is not allowing them. It's an agreement between Tesla and F and GM. It makes business sense.

2) Rivian's right to do the same??? What right? Rivian, like F and GM must negotiate terms. Charging is not a right. It's a transaction. None of us have the "right" to charge our EVs anywhere.

 

[SeaGeo]

I guess they cools, but don’t see why they would… NACS a passive revenue stream for Tesla.

Tesla will become the next SkyNet ?

Competition. Elon's personal whim.

They have offered the NACS as an open "standard", therefore they could not prevent Rivian from using the connector in their cars and RAN stations.

Not as one that's actually open. They've just offered to let other people adopt it from what I've seen.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Now that GM and Ford are transitioning to NACS and Elon is allowing them to use Tesla’s supercharger network can Tesla deny Rivian’s right to do the same? In other words, if Rivian or a third party developed an adapter that will allow Rivian‘s to charge at Tesla superchargers do the legal experts in the group think Tesla could lock them out of their network? Sort of reminds me of the requirement that Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile make their networks available to third parties in order to promote competition.

Rivian only allows Rivian vehicles to charge at RAN stations, despite RAN using CCS Type 1. So simply being "physically compatible" has not yet been an issue, legally speaking.

 

[moosetags]

We sure hope that Rivian can work things out with Tesla. Rivian owners need this nationwide access to high speed charging.

Brian

 

[iansriv]

Rivian only allows Rivian vehicles to charge at RAN stations, despite RAN using CCS Type 1. So simply being "physically compatible" has not yet been an issue, legally speaking.

I prefer to keep the rif-raf out (j/k)!

 

[azbill]

The stations with Magic Dock accept any CCS vehicle, as long as you have the Tesla App. Rivians, as well as many others have charged at those.

 

[DuoRivians]

Yes, Tesla/Elon can do whatever they please

 

[MP3Mike]

This doesn't mean that Tesla won't do this, but I believe by doing so they would kill any federal funding for NACS based chargers unless the chargers had the minimum of CCS ports.

There is already no NEVI funding for chargers that don't have a CCS connector... The only way to get NEVI funding for NACS is when it is paired with a CCS connector on the same charger. (Which it has been that way from the start, nothing has changed.)

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