Rivian News: R2, Production, Preorders, 2024, Amazon, NACS, Self Driving (from Global Auto Industry Conference 2023)

[s4wrxttcs]

I think it's very likely that Rivian would beat Subaru to market with a BEV-type of Outback vehicle (if that is what the R2 becomes). Especially since Toyota owns a large stake in Subaru and that Toyota has recently announced a slew of EV-related initiatives. Even for a company as large as Toyota, it will take them time to get vehicles to the market.

Toyota's / Subaru's initial BEV entry - Solterra / bZ4x left a lot to be desired with the whole wheel fiasco.

The wheel fiasco makes for an amusing story, but its really the slow charging speed that shows just how terrible the bZ4X is.

https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-toyota-bz4x-dc-fast-charging-test-dont-rely-on-it-463351/

Sponsored

 

[Count Orlok]

Imagine the R1S demand if it had been a purpose-built SUV instead of a truck-based afterthought. In the Count's perfect world Rivian makes a full-size pick up (that can support the torque of snow plowing) and the R2S as a Bronco-size SUV with off-road capabilities.

The Count will be ordering the R2 and keep his fingers crossed on seeing a larger truck.

 

[Craigins]

Backend of 2024

• 85K for R1 capacity
• ~30K for EDV capacity
• (Gave impression Normal has capacity for 65K EDVs once producing beyond Amazon)

This is sad news. The factory expansion was supposed to increase production capacity from 150k to 200k. They were supposed to reach the 150k rate by the end of this year. Bummer. It appears the pivot from EDV to R1 cost them overall capacity and delayed the ramp up.

 

[vista1984]

This is sad news. The factory expansion was supposed to increase production capacity from 150k to 200k. They were supposed to reach the 150k rate by the end of this year. Bummer. It appears the pivot from EDV to R1 cost them overall capacity and delayed the ramp up.

I think even rivian is capable to 150k to 200k capacity, there is no such demand.

 

[Aardvark]

I was hoping that heat pump would have made it on the list of new technologies being studied in 2024.

 

[McBogey]

First off what @s4wrxttcs said is spot on but additionally other automakers/networks giving up on building charging infrastructure to get in bed with the Tesla is a worst possible outcome for EV owners.

More infrastructure investment is more better...

Agreed and am encouraged by indicator RAN will continue to be built out, assuming Rivian can afford the startup costs. Great portfolio diversification in long run (when they, like Tesla, open up to more customers at a premium), which can help Rivian weather vehicle demand fluctuations. “Luxury” experience for Rivian owners. And greater competition in marketplace should benefit all in long run. (Assuming the NACS/CCS sorts itself out. Still early days on that despite the Ford & GM announcement.)

 

[junkanoo]

The entire point of the RAN network is to be in locations that aren't serviced very well by the existing fast charging infrastructure.

Like close to National parks and other adventurous areas.

Correct. And while servicing low-density and seasonal locations serves a purpose, it doesn't target profitability. Rivian needs to target things that will lead them to profitability.

 

[Cascadian]

Wonder what percentage of R1S orders are dual motors? I’m selfishly hoping they’ll clear backlog on QM R1Ss by end of year.

My QM Dec 21 order is not due for delivery until Q2 24, but that doesn’t mean DM versions won’t go into production earlier

 

[mkg3]

I was listening the conference stream as Claire spoke. The whole thing lasted 30mins or so and when the question about the NACS was asked, she answered in a non-committal way.

Yes they will continue with RAN but never said or implied what interface so for all we know, it may be both CCS1 and NACS (or NACS going forward). Additionally, no comment was made about the number of RAN stations. Given that supercharger access is going to save Rivian millions of dollars, it's all possible that RAN will exists only in the area where Superchargers are not, including national parks and recreational areas going forward.

The thing about these comments are that they will only say things on the record already or nothing material. She is not going to break the news that Rivian is going to NACS on a call like this. It will be done by RJ and with certain amount of prepared remarks.

The 70% R1S split was a surprise but most expected SUV to outnumber the truck so she merely confirmed the speculation and at this point, its no longer material - since they are filling R1Ts in a couple of weeks.

Today, I read that both Toyota and Stallantis are considering the option for NACS. Why would Rivian be left out and fight the CCS battle alone, if all majors end up on the other side???

 

[Hillbilly]

The entire point of the RAN network is to be in locations that aren't serviced very well by the existing fast charging infrastructure.

Like close to National parks and other adventurous areas.

These are the only places I ever tow to in my diesel. Fast charging routes between parks is the dream.

 

[MDH]

Sorry you are mistaken, there is no adapter you can buy for TESLA (NACS) to CCS. There is a CCS-NACS for Tesla owners (limited to certain year and moidel Tesla's) can buy. Tesla SC are putting in a magic doc In some SC, promised for more, but is only NY state and a few in CA so far. And there is a Level 2 adapter for NACS to J1772 , but is not what is being discussed.

Yes incorporating NACS into Rivian implies a use agreement with Tesla, all the necessary hardware/ software...

Saying Rivian should not switch to NACS, is like saying Blockbuster doesn't need to get in to the streaming video market... After last weeks announmentc with GM and FORD, swithcing to NACS in 2024/2025 and several indepemndamnt charger networks all going to offer NACS support, the writing is on the wall. Just like for Betamax, Blockbuster, HDdvd etc... Either get on board or be left behind.

It's simple...

Obviously, as a long time Tesla owner, and a R1S with CCS I understand all the implications... And yes I will need and gladly pay for my own adapter to be able to use the Tesla SC network

Why so many don't understand what you eloquently stated is baffling to me.

 

[docwhiz]

https://electrek.co/2023/06/15/exclusive-rivian-to-acquire-abrp-a-better-route-planner/

 

[TJM]

70% of new orders filled have been R1S - good news. Better news would be the number of outstanding R1S orders to be filled.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

I was listening the conference stream as Claire spoke. The whole thing lasted 30mins or so and when the question about the NACS was asked, she answered in a non-committal way.

Yes they will continue with RAN but never said or implied what interface so for all we know, it may be both CCS1 and NACS (or NACS going forward). Additionally, no comment was made about the number of RAN stations. Given that supercharger access is going to save Rivian millions of dollars, it's all possible that RAN will exists only in the area where Superchargers are not, including national parks and recreational areas going forward.

The thing about these comments are that they will only say things on the record already or nothing material. She is not going to break the news that Rivian is going to NACS on a call like this. It will be done by RJ and with certain amount of prepared remarks.

The 70% R1S split was a surprise but most expected SUV to outnumber the truck so she merely confirmed the speculation and at this point, its no longer material - since they are filling R1Ts in a couple of weeks.

Today, I read that both Toyota and Stallantis are considering the option for NACS. Why would Rivian be left out and fight the CCS battle alone, if all majors end up on the other side???

I would say there are two camps of CCS based manufactures at this point.

One camp of non-committed manufactures like Toyota, Stallantis, Honda, and probably some others.

The other camp of manufactures with some kind of tie-in with CCS. Obviously Rivian is as they're building out a network of RAN chargers built around CCS. Another example is VW as they initially funded Electrify America as a result of the diesel gate settlement. They also have a tie in as they leverage 800VDC charging which NACS theoretically supports.

So what's going to be interesting is if any vehicle manufacture with some kind of CCS tie in decides to switch. Like Rivian, VW (which includes Audi, and Porsche) or even Hyundai/Kia (they currently leverage the 800VDC charging capability of CCS).

Hyundai/Kia are really the ones to watch to see what they do. I believe they're solidly in Third place behind Tesla, and Ford when it comes to EV's being sold in North America. Although the loss of the $7500 tax credit eligibility may have pushed them into 4th in 2023.

Hyundai/Kia also have to be conscious of the fact that buyers are likely choosing a Tesla over a Hyundai/Kia not because of features, but because of the Supercharger. So inking an agreement with Tesla to leverage the Supercharger Network will certainly improve their ability to compete.

Supercharger access is really what's key in all of this.

Personally I'm less interested in what manufactures opt to do, but what the Federal Government opts to do when it comes to NACS adoption.

 

[Guy]

I am surprised they are going to show the R2 early next year a full two years before production. That is a long time for the design to age and for people (media) to move onto the next thing.
Also a little disappointed that the Q4 shutdown has moved back for the improvements. I wonder if “manufacturing improvements” are general assembly improvements and wheel alignment etc.

Sponsored