? Rivian Adopts Tesla NACS Standard! (Adapters in 2024, Standard Charging Port in 2025)

[HighVoltOverland]

Anecdotal for sure, but this does make me think about an experience I had last time I was camping in the Mojave.

I noticed a lone Model S at the EA side of Baker with me. Apparently, the driver was rear ended and kept his car, but because it was a branded title now, Tesla revoked his access to the SC network, so he had to charge via CCS networks with an adapter.

It will be interesting to see what cars are "allowed" to charge on the SC network and what type of second class treatment others will get. Considering this guy was locked out of the network with a Tesla, it doesn't take much for my mind to imagine a future where us early adopters are told something about "safety" and "encouraged" to buy a newer model through lack of network access.

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[Tim-in-CA]

More details on how Rivian will be supplying adapters:

I really hope that this adapter has a 6 foot extension cable on it so there is no issues using ALL Supercharger locations. V4 won't be prolific by 2024.

 

[arbitrage000]

Another thought: why is Ford, Rivian, etc planning on making their own adapters? Can’t there just be a third party make them to CCS and NACS spec. Maybe Rivian can sell it in the gear shop, but no need to develop their own. The same adapter should be able to connect a Mach E, R1T, EV6, etc… all onto the Supercharger network just the same.

I don't think its been confirmed but it seems to be implied in the Ford and GM announcements that it is Tesla that is making the adapter and it will be a single adapter for all the CCS cars that adopt the NACS port.

Maybe it will be sold by the individual companies or maybe it will only be sold in the TESLA shop. Probably either way could work and doesn't really matter.

EDIT: I see the recent tweets that it will be sold in Rivian shop but will also be free for CCS vehicles. Still not sure who will manufacturer it or design it. I'm guessing Tesla will design it and then license the design for the others to produce for their customers.

Good news that Rivian will be giving the adapter for free because it seems some on here felt that a ~$300 adapter was going to break the bank after buying their $100K truck.

 

[Zorg]

I really hope that this adapter has a 6 foot extension cable on it so there is no issues using ALL Supercharger locations. V4 won't be prolific by 2024.

Very unlikely. SC cables are super expensive.

 

[azbill]

For the Hummer they already know how to use either 800v or 400v (see below) so they could just charge at 250 kW for a more sustained period. This is just as good as 350 kW for a short period.

The Hummer is not going to charge at 250kw on a 400V charger, more like 200kw, but that assumes the adapter can run at 500A, which currently the magic dock does not. With the adapter limited to 350A, no 400V system will get more than 120-140kw, that includes a Rivian.

And even if Tesla increases the voltage to support 800, then the Hummer would get 250kw with the adapter at 350A.

 

[scottf200]

I wish they will consider to include a couple feet of cable when they design the adapter. It will cost more but much more useful.

You are only thinking about reaching BUT you completely ignore the overheating from higher kW.

 

[Operator]

I disagree with all the folks talking about focusing on remote locations for RAN. I think RAN should go full steam ahead. This is a great strategic move by Rivian since their RAN network deployment is delayed. Sign a 5 year contract with tesla to utilize their SC while you build out your own network. Once the network is built out, you drop your contract with tesla or you have much better negotiating power on the renewal with tesla . Either way its a win, but there is certainly no need to just rely on SC, and from my experience, RAN chargers offer a great experience, comparable to tesla SC. So why cede this potentially lucrative business model to Tesla.

 

[scottf200]

The Hummer is not going to charge at 250kw on a 400V charger, more like 200kw, but that assumes the adapter can run at 500A, which currently the magic dock does not. With the adapter limited to 350A, no 400V system will get more than 120-140kw, that includes a Rivian.

And even if Tesla increases the voltage to support 800, then the Hummer would get 250kw with the adapter at 350A.

Tesla larger battery ~400V cars already charge on 250 kW when they are at a low SOC. Obviously, it is technically possible.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging

Faster Charging, No More Power Sharing
V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car.

 

[Tahoe Man]

Still doesn’t mean one company should have a monopoly. Others will be forced to get better due to Tesla. That’s how capitalism works.

New poster to the forum, and I know it's been discussed already in a smattering of places, but this NACS thing has my head going two different roads;

1. DC Fast Charging is difficult to open as a business, except for entrenched or well capitalized companies for CCS1 plugs. It is difficult to justify building L3 chargers because the market penetration of CCS is just not nearly to the Tesla plug. With so many shifting over to NACS, the market for L3 charging station customers is going to grow rapidly, and this will offset concerns about a Tesla monopoly on DC fast charging.
2. Tesla already has a massive L3 network that works great, is relatively inexpensive for Tesla drivers, and is hugely widespread. Other L3 operators are not incentivized to build out competitive networks because Tesla is already so dominant. Tesla cements itself as a monopolistic operator of chargers and 3rd party vehicles pay exorbitant fees to charge.

I want to believe #1 is the most likely outcome. Tesla can't be everywhere at once, after all. But, their ability to scale is legendary. I worry that #2 is the most likely scenario.

Other things that worry me about this:

• If NACS is controlled by Tesla, they control possible kW output, and the voltage and amps that goes into the vehicle. Might that enable some kind of control of battery and BMS design? Maybe that's a good thing, if true?
• If Tesla doesn't hand over design and standards of NACS to a neutral party, what is to stop Tesla from becoming Apple with the Lightning Port?

Come on, nobody is going to get rich selling electricity, it's like selling bottled water out of a vending machine.

So the way to offset the cost is to cut installation and maintenance. Viola you get EA/CCS. Then you get horror stories about half of the chargers are dead, the navigation takes them to wrong spots, payment doesn't work etc etc. So people like me start to advocate to my friends and family to not buy a non Tesla EV, unless you enjoy charger scavenger hunts.

 

[azbill]

esla larger battery ~400V cars already charge on 250 kW when they are at a low SOC. Obviously, it is technically possible.

They are drawing over 600A to do that. That adapter will melt at that current level with no cooling.

 

[Tahoe Man]

I disagree with all the folks talking about focusing on remote locations for RAN. I think RAN should go full steam ahead. This is a great strategic move by Rivian since their RAN network deployment is delayed. Sign a 5 year contract with tesla to utilize their SC while you build out your own network. Once the network is built out, you drop your contract with tesla or you have much better negotiating power on the renewal with tesla . Either way its a win, but there is certainly no need to just rely on SC, and from my experience, RAN chargers offer a great experience, comparable to tesla SC. So why cede this potentially lucrative business model to Tesla.

Um, okay, then you're paying for that build out when you could have been reinvesting into the products you actually sell.

Nobody is going to buy a Rivian and say, I bought it for access to the RAN network.

 

[DuoRivians]

I disagree with all the folks talking about focusing on remote locations for RAN. I think RAN should go full steam ahead. This is a great strategic move by Rivian since their RAN network deployment is delayed. Sign a 5 year contract with tesla to utilize their SC while you build out your own network. Once the network is built out, you drop your contract with tesla or you have much better negotiating power on the renewal with tesla . Either way its a win, but there is certainly no need to just rely on SC, and from my experience, RAN chargers offer a great experience, comparable to tesla SC. So why cede this potentially lucrative business model to Tesla.

There is a dearth of charging infrastructure if all cars went EV by 2030. Rivian still has plenty of opportunity to grow the RAN and make money.

 

[Rob Stark]

Now get NACS out of Tesla's exclusive control and into a recognized standards body, and all will be good.

This will be all good.

If you want to turn the Supercharger Network into the CCS Networks.

If you want the stations to simply work without worry or fuss then you don't want leadership by committee.

 

[scottf200]

They are drawing over 600A to do that. That adapter will melt at that current level with no cooling.

That is a pretty good point. It us unclear which companies have cooled ports which would help cool and adapter (but not sure they had the foresight or thought the expense was worth it).

Unclear if the Supercharger v3 (and/or v4) handles have cooling but we know the cables ARE and we *know* Tesla has a 2019 patent on the handles being cooled so they've thought about for several years. https://electrek.co/2019/09/30/tesla-patents-liquid-cooled-charging-connector/

 

[MDH]

I paid the pre march prices. Also, I’m incredibly cheap. My favorite adventuring with my Rivian is to find free places to charge.

Yes indeed you are!

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