Dear Rivian Engineers who worked on the Air Conditioning

[LL75]

Let's hope the engineers can figure this out-FAST. It's strange that R1T owners don't have this AC problem, or do they?
I really want to be excited about my new R1S, but this AC issue "mitigates excitement." LOL.
I've done all I can do on my side (photosync tint on every glass surface, including windshield).
My sons 2017 Jeep Wrangler AC is the absolute best I've ever experienced. It blows cold hard air within about 30 seconds. Hope then engineers can use Jeep's AC as a model.

Got a 2023 R1t as a loaner about 3 weeks ago. It definitely has the same AC issues as you mentioned. The R1t felt even hotter than my r1s. (It could be due to no tints). I sure hope they figure things out soon. I sure do love my r1s, but definitely hate their ac and sounds system. My 2019 model 3 stereo and ac are much better imo. Can't even get anywhere on same level as my 2012 Tahoe AC

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[SurfnBike]

Disclaimer- I live in Phoenix where it’s pretty warm right now.
However, the 5 other cars in my household: 2014 Jeep grand Cherokee, 2017Jeep wrangler, 2014 Ford Escape, 2017 Porsche Cayman and 2014 Tesla model S blow COLD air within 3-5 mins of driving-even in 110+ heat.

Engineers: Please redesign the AC so that it:
1. Cools the cabin properly within 5 mins (yes, recirculate is on and temp is set to 72F, but air is barely cool). Even after driving for 15 mins Air from vents is not particularly cool.
2. Doesn‘t make a loud weed trimmer noise. It’s embarrassing to drive what should be a “cool” vehicle that makes the weed trimmer noise. It’s pretty clear the compressor is trying unsuccessfully to cool the cabin, but can’t.
3. Please test the AC in extreme temps to evaluate performance of the system.


That’s it! That’s all I am asking. Otherwise, I am reasonably happy with my R1S.

I don't have time to read all 8 pages but my R1T has the EXACT same problems--air doesn't get cold, and the AC makes a weird aircraft/vibration noise like it's ready to explode. Very disappointed so far with the AC system, even on 90-95F days, it doesn't keep the truck cool like any other cheaper vehicle would. I'm worried that in my first service visit next week this problem will get blown off (pun intenteded)! Any advice?

 

[Whale Blubber]

No idea, just wondering if ICE vehicles have an advantage in this (single) respect -- i.e., is an electric powered compressor on a level playing field with a same-size belt-driven unit?

 

[Zoidz]

Based on these reports, I did several observation sessions the past few days when we had temperatures around 100 degrees in Delaware. I’ll start off by saying that I have not had any concerns or complaints about my AC prior to these observations. It seemed to me to be working as expected.

On Friday, the indicated OAT (Outside Air Temperature) on the Rivian screen was fluctuating between 99 and 100 degrees, full sun. I did not check a second independent thermometer, nor did I do any pre-cooling. I did have a front windshield reflector in place. The Rivian app indicated 120 degrees inside the R1S.

I unlocked via the app and let it pre-cool for one minute, and got in to remove the sunscreen. I set the fan to high with recirc off. That’s what you are supposed to do when outside temp is lower than inside.

My wife was with me. I could feel the temperature dropping. After 3 minutes I changed to recirc as the inside temperature felt lower than outside. After 5 minutes the temperature was probably around 80 - 85 degrees inside and was certainly bearable If a bit warm. After about 8 minutes it was comfortable. At 10 minutes I turned the fan to 50% And it felt like it was about 70 degrees inside. My wife knows nothing about these issues that the community is reporting. I asked her how it felt inside the car - she said it was very comfortable. At 18 minutes she turned the fan down to the second lowest speed. It was very comfortable the rest of the drive to the beach where we surf fish.

On Saturday, my wife and two daughters and a dog were with us. One daughter sat in the third row with the other daughter and the dog in the second row. They knew nothing about any Rivian community complaints regarding the AC. It was essentially the same as above, reasonably quick cool down, no issues at all. I did have the 2nd and 3rd row vents active. My daughter in the third row actually commented how comfortable it was and that it was much better than other 3 row vehicles she had been in. After a while she even asked me to REDUCE the fan speed as she was getting cold. OAT was showing 97 degrees, full sun.

I know that some of you, with all your frustrations over the AC, will think I’m full of ? or making this up — I’m not. My R1S AC works as good or better than any vehicle I have owned.

My conclusion is that I have a “compliant to spec” AC system and that the problems people are experiencing are not an engineering design flaw, but rather 1) refrigerant over or undercharged at the factory or 2) a leak resulting in undercharge or 3) AC compressor build quality variations, or 4) malfunctioning routing valves for battery cooling, any of which will result in reduced cabin cooling capacity. FWIW, my build date was April 23, I took delivery in early June.

If you are having issues, consider pushing Rivian to do a refrigerant recovery, vacuum leak test, and then recharge to proper refrigerant weight. Based on other reports by those who have had it serviced, It seems likely that could correct your issues IF DONE PROPERLY. The Rivian techs should know this, but just measuring system operating pressures is not a valid method of troubleshooting. They must evacuate, vacuum test, and recharge with the proper weight to do it right.

 

[Zoidz]

No idea, just wondering if ICE vehicles have an advantage in this (single) respect -- i.e., is an electric powered compressor on a level playing field with a same-size belt-driven unit?

ICE vehicles actually are at a deficit. The compressor can only run as fast as the engine RPM. Some ICE vehicles do not cool very well at idle speed. The Rivian compressor can run at whatever speed is needed to provide the right amount of cooling.

 

[Cactus]

Based on these reports, I did several observation sessions the past few days when we had temperatures around 100 degrees in Delaware. I’ll start off by saying that I have not had any concerns or complaints about my AC prior to these observations. It seemed to me to be working as expected.

On Friday, the indicated OAT (Outside Air Temperature) on the Rivian screen was fluctuating between 99 and 100 degrees, full sun. I did not check a second independent thermometer, nor did I do any pre-cooling. I did have a front windshield reflector in place. The Rivian app indicated 120 degrees inside the R1S.

I unlocked via the app and let it pre-cool for one minute, and got in to remove the sunscreen. I set the fan to high with recirc off. That’s what you are supposed to do when outside temp is lower than inside.

My wife was with me. I could feel the temperature dropping. After 3 minutes I changed to recirc as the inside temperature felt lower than outside. After 5 minutes the temperature was probably around 80 - 85 degrees inside and was certainly bearable If a bit warm. After about 8 minutes it was comfortable. At 10 minutes I turned the fan to 50% And it felt like it was about 70 degrees inside. My wife knows nothing about these issues that the community is reporting. I asked her how it felt inside the car - she said it was very comfortable. At 18 minutes she turned the fan down to the second lowest speed. It was very comfortable the rest of the drive to the beach where we surf fish.

On Saturday, my wife and two daughters and a dog were with us. One daughter sat in the third row with the other daughter and the dog in the second row. They knew nothing about any Rivian community complaints regarding the AC. It was essentially the same as above, reasonably quick cool down, no issues at all. I did have the 2nd and 3rd row vents active. My daughter in the third row actually commented how comfortable it was and that it was much better than other 3 row vehicles she had been in. After a while she even asked me to REDUCE the fan speed as she was getting cold. OAT was showing 97 degrees, full sun.

I know that some of you, with all your frustrations over the AC, will think I’m full of ? or making this up — I’m not. My R1S AC works as good or better than any vehicle I have owned.

My conclusion is that I have a “compliant to spec” AC system and that the problems people are experiencing are not an engineering design flaw, but rather 1) refrigerant over or undercharged at the factory or 2) a leak resulting in undercharge or 3) AC compressor build quality variations, or 4) malfunctioning routing valves for battery cooling, any of which will result in reduced cabin cooling capacity. FWIW, my build date was April 23, I took delivery in early June.

If you are having issues, consider pushing Rivian to do a refrigerant recovery, vacuum leak test, and then recharge to proper refrigerant weight. Based on other reports by those who have had it serviced, It seems likely that could correct your issues IF DONE PROPERLY. The Rivian techs should know this, but just measuring system operating pressures is not a valid method of troubleshooting. They must evacuate, vacuum test, and recharge with the proper weight to do it right.

Thanks for the summary; it's helpful to know that an R1S AC compressor performing optimally can cool the R1S cabin from 120°F to comfortable temps.
I am noting that your location is PA and you mentioned DE at the beach. Some of us R1S owners are in locations where temps are quite a bit hotter. I'm in Phx where temps in the SHADE have been 116-119°F for the past 25-30 days (thankfully, it's cooling down to <110°F for the next few days). Others are in Dallas or Florida, etc...

I'm not sure what my build date was (how do you find this info?), but my R1S VIN is 13,0XX and was also delivered to the Phx Service Center in the latter part of June.

I am also curious about the behavior of my AC compressor and how it affects efficiency (mi/kwh). Next time you get in your R1S after it has been sitting in the sun, would you mind taking a picture of your mi/kwh efficiency graph after 3-4 minutes with the AC on? (left hand side of the driver display: use left side steering wheel buttons on either side of thumbwheel to toggle thru, maps and tire pressure to get to efficiency graph).

Independent of whether my R1S has been sitting in the sun or in my garage, when I turn on the AC, mi/kwh drops from a normal 2.2 to 1.6 or 1.7 mi/kwh and stays there for at least 5 mins while the AC tries to cool the cabin. I think one of my earlier posts shows this. Sometimes I turn the AC off for a minute, then back on, and it then the efficiency seems to normalize, but the AC never gets as cold as my other cars.


I'm also kinda irritated that Rivian Service Center can't get me in until Aug 25th. I completed the service request on the app 2 weeks ago, so that's 6 weeks for an AC service appt. Someone said I should call them and tell them I don't feel safe driving in such a hot vehicle.

 

[NY_Rob]

ICE vehicles actually are at a deficit. The compressor can only run as fast as the engine RPM. Some ICE vehicles do not cool very well at idle speed. The Rivian compressor can run at whatever speed is needed to provide the right amount of cooling.

Exactly!
In theory they should have been able to right-sized the system to run at a reasonable constant speed due the the fact that is 100% electric powered and precisely rpm controlled/not relying on the ICE which runs at varying rpms ranging between 600-5000 RPM in everyday use. The EV A/C systems are more closely related to your home's A/C then your ICE vehicle's A/C system.

My R1T A/C works well even in 90deg temps, but I do have a roof shade (the hansshow one with the silver outside facing layer) and a windshield shade too, so my Ocean Coast cabin does not get flesh burning hot at any point either.

 

[SRO]

Disclaimer- I live in Phoenix where it’s pretty warm right now.
However, the 5 other cars in my household: 2014 Jeep grand Cherokee, 2017Jeep wrangler, 2014 Ford Escape, 2017 Porsche Cayman and 2014 Tesla model S blow COLD air within 3-5 mins of driving-even in 110+ heat.

Engineers: Please redesign the AC so that it:
1. Cools the cabin properly within 5 mins (yes, recirculate is on and temp is set to 72F, but air is barely cool). Even after driving for 15 mins Air from vents is not particularly cool.
2. Doesn‘t make a loud weed trimmer noise. It’s embarrassing to drive what should be a “cool” vehicle that makes the weed trimmer noise. It’s pretty clear the compressor is trying unsuccessfully to cool the cabin, but can’t.
3. Please test the AC in extreme temps to evaluate performance of the system.


That’s it! That’s all I am asking. Otherwise, I am reasonably happy with my R1S.

I must be missing something. Why would someone use recirculate until the air inside gets as cool as the air outside? I’ve seen this more than once. When you start the T and you are outside it may be 100 outside but 130+ inside. Maybe these are the ones that start in the garage which is less than 100.

 

[Guy]

Thanks for the summary; it's helpful to know that an R1S AC compressor performing optimally can cool the R1S cabin from 120°F to comfortable temps.
I am noting that your location is PA and you mentioned DE at the beach. Some of us R1S owners are in locations where temps are quite a bit hotter. I'm in Phx where temps in the SHADE have been 116-119°F for the past 25-30 days (thankfully, it's cooling down to <110°F for the next few days). Others are in Dallas or Florida, etc...

I'm not sure what my build date was (how do you find this info?), but my R1S VIN is 13,0XX and was also delivered to the Phx Service Center in the latter part of June.

I am also curious about the behavior of my AC compressor and how it affects efficiency (mi/kwh). Next time you get in your R1S after it has been sitting in the sun, would you mind taking a picture of your mi/kwh efficiency graph after 3-4 minutes with the AC on? (left hand side of the driver display: use left side steering wheel buttons on either side of thumbwheel to toggle thru, maps and tire pressure to get to efficiency graph).

Independent of whether my R1S has been sitting in the sun or in my garage, when I turn on the AC, mi/kwh drops from a normal 2.2 to 1.6 or 1.7 mi/kwh and stays there for at least 5 mins while the AC tries to cool the cabin. I think one of my earlier posts shows this. Sometimes I turn the AC off for a minute, then back on, and it then the efficiency seems to normalize, but the AC never gets as cold as my other cars.


I'm also kinda irritated that Rivian Service Center can't get me in until Aug 25th. I completed the service request on the app 2 weeks ago, so that's 6 weeks for an AC service appt. Someone said I should call them and tell them I don't feel safe driving in such a hot vehicle.

On your front door jamb you should see the sticker with tire pressures and also build date.

 

[Zoidz]

I must be missing something. Why would someone use recirculate until the air inside gets as cool as the air outside? I’ve seen this more than once. When you start the T and you are outside it may be 100 outside but 130+ inside. Maybe these are the ones that start in the garage which is less than 100.

I think there are a lot of people who never learned how to use recirculate properly. They think it is for fresh outside air or recirc due to poor outside air quality. Use outside air until the cabin is cooler than outside, then recirc to reduce the heat load and optimize the cooling. Most AC systems can only provide a 30 to 40 degree delta. If it's pulling in 120 degree outside air, it will never get colder than 75 - 80 degrees. That's not Rivian's fault. That's refrigeration thermodynamics.

 

[SRO]

Amen!

 

[SoCal Rob]

I think there are a lot of people who never learned how to use recirculate properly. They think it is for fresh outside air or recirc due to poor outside air quality. Use outside air until the cabin is cooler than outside, then recirc to reduce the heat load and optimize the cooling. Most AC systems can only provide a 30 to 40 degree delta. If it's pulling in 120 degree outside air, it will never get colder than 75 - 80 degrees. That's not Rivian's fault. That's refrigeration thermodynamics.

Many of us know to do this, however…

Our R1 vehicles appear to have an outside temperature sensor and a cabin temperature sensor. Why can’t the vehicle optimize cooling automatically based on these readings?

If mode = cooling and inside temp < outside then recirculate = on else recirculate = off

Heating mode would be more complex because keeping recirculate on to maximize heating will also cause humidity buildup and window fogging.

 

[Craigins]

Many of us know to do this, however…

Our R1 vehicles appear to have an outside temperature sensor and a cabin temperature sensor. Why can’t the vehicle optimize cooling automatically based on these readings?

If mode = cooling and inside temp < outside then recirculate = on else recirculate = off

Heating mode would be more complex because keeping recirculate on to maximize heating will also cause humidity buildup and window fogging.

On auto mode that would be fine, but without fresh air for long drives I typically get car sick. I'd need a way to disable it.

 

[Zoidz]

Many of us know to do this, however…

Our R1 vehicles appear to have an outside temperature sensor and a cabin temperature sensor. Why can’t the vehicle optimize cooling automatically based on these readings?

If mode = cooling and inside temp < outside then recirculate = on else recirculate = off

Heating mode would be more complex because keeping recirculate on to maximize heating will also cause humidity buildup and window fogging.

It certainly could be done!

 

[SoCal Rob]

On auto mode that would be fine, but without fresh air for long drives I typically get car sick. I'd need a way to disable it.

There would probably need to be a certain percentage of time dedicated to fresh air after set temperature is reached or x minutes have passed.

I know our Land Rover did something like this because I generally left it on recirculate after it seemed like the time to switch but I could hear the recirculate air door creak (almost like sone people get on their R1 grill louvers, but quieter) as it would take a gulp of fresh air and then go back to recirculate even though I never touched the HVAC.

Rivian seems to know how many seatbelts are buckled so they could probably even adjust the percentage of fresh air based on vehicle occupancy: more people should mean more time delivering fresh air instead of recirculating. Even if some seatbelts are buckled without a person (e.g. empty car seat) it just means the system would deliver too much fresh air instead of too little.
Edit:typo

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