Rivian Quality - Two Genuine Questions

[Headingley]

I have a different view on the "people complain on forums...." thought. Reading this thread demonstrates that a lot of people have reported issues. I believe the reason why "Rivian servicing" is such an expanding issue right now is that the company is producing these products with the mentality of "get them out the door as fast as possible and let service fix all the issues." If you are going to buy I think you should adopt the mentality of expecting the worst, but hoping for the best. In other words you should expect your Rivian to have some issues that will require servicing. If you cannot accept the worse, then I think you should consider a more refined vehicle and revisit Rivian in a few years.

Sponsored

 

[rivianUGA]

I have been a long-time reservation holder slated for delivery in September/October of 2023. I expect to hear from a guide any day now. I love the R1S look and it was incredible to drive during my First Drive. Going from an R1S back to a gas powered car feels like traveling in a time machine and not in a good way. But I'm seriously considering cancelling and was within one button press of doing so tonight.

I have been following this forum as well as many of the others on Facebook. What I can't seem to get past is the reliability and quality of these vehicles. I can get over one or two misaligned panels, but it seems as though there are some major design flaws out there that get discovered on an almost daily basis. And there are also some major build quality issues, some of which impact safety (e.g., brake cabling issue). Most importantly, service sounds abysmal. The install base where I'm located is significantly lower right now than SoCal, but I hear stories about service in that area and it sounds like a nightmare. I worry about what happens when more trucks and SUVs get delivered in my area as Rivian tries to meet its objectives to make the street happy.

Any post in these forums that discusses quality issues is often met with some combination of the following responses:
- It's an "early adopter tax"
- "Mine was perfect, it's been to the service center seven times in the first three months of ownership but otherwise an amazing vehicle"
- "Mine had the same problem"
- "Mine had the same problem but its fixed now after being at the SC for three weeks"
- "Mine had the same problem plus these other things too."
- "Only people who have problems post in the forums. For every complaint there's 10 trucks/SUVs that are great." [I don't buy this.]
- "Every vehicle forum has hundreds of these same types of complaints." [I don't buy this either...go look at the RAV4 Prime Forum and you'll have a great point of comparison]
- And then one out of ten - "it's flawless, 400 miles and had it for a month."

I have owned five cars in my life - a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, a 2007 Infinity G35X, a 2011 BMW X3, and our two current vehicles - a 2017 Honda Pilot and a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The only one of the bunch that had a series of issues at purchase was -and this will not come as a surprise - the BMW. But BMW stood by their product and after the third major issue gave me a seven year platinum warranty on the house. (Funny enough from the moment they issued that warranty until last year when I traded it in, it never had any other major issues). The other four just had routine maintenance and tires with the RAV4 being the most solidly built car I've ever owned. (I specifically mention that one because people cite the electronics in the modern automobile as the issue...but the RAV4 has plenty of electronics in it).

So my genuine questions are as follows:
- Why this level of quality that Rivian is currently producing an expectation of the norm? It seems like the Rivian community is willing to accept this level of quality which to me is shocking - it's an $80-100k vehicle, depending on when you locked in pricing. Is it because many owners are moving from a Tesla where quality is historically known to be low quality? What I really don't get - whether you can afford it or not, a car that's valued at $100k is still $100k.
- Don't you worry about owning the vehicle over the long run? There's a whole host of things we know about, but what about the other stuff we don't? And don't people worry about the safety?

I really want to know what I'm missing here, and I'm not posting this to be inflammatory in any way. I respect all the people in this forum who already own Rivians. A bit jealous in fact. Every part of me wants to buy this thing, but everything I keep reading tells me it's a bad decision.

I'm on my second rivian. First one got totaled when we got creamed by a drunk driver. That, for me, was what makes me a life-long customer going forward. The way the vehicle held up and we walked away was simply amazing. And if there was nothing else that I liked about the truck, that alone was worth the price. I don't believe you will find a better built vehicle as far as safety than the R1T and R1S.

As far as the other questions. My first truck was a 3,000 VIN. Got it in March of 2021. It had some wind noise from the passenger triangle glass that they fixed. Later there were issues like the steering column piece that wasn't tightened to the right specs. They came to everybody's houses and checked and fixed that on the spot. The original truck also had some wind noise in the top glass piece as it was not perfectly aligned.

The new truck is VIN of 24000. It has almost no wind noise. The only issue I've seen with it is the hood is not perfectly aligned, but I haven't taken the time to have them fix it.

As for the SC they have been great in Atlanta. I never have issues getting an appointment. And they have always been really knowledgable and professional.

Oh only other issue I've had was on the OG truck, they messed up the registration and my temp tag expired and it took them several weeks to finally send me the stuff so I could just register it myself.

But on the new truck the registration was handled within the first few weeks I had the truck and therefore never even got my anxiety up.

In total, I am about 25,000 miles into Rivian driving. I would love to only have rivian vehicles in our family. And probably will eventually go that route, once the R2 is available. Cheaper and longer battery range are the only 2 obstacles now. Final thought: people that post on message boards are going to be more likely to be the ones that have issues. Most folks aren't taking time to post about how their vehicle is meeting/exceeding their expectations.

Feel free to DM me if you have more questions. I will do my best to answer.

EDIT: couple other things I thought of. The new truck has the rivian speakers. They are a lot better than the Meridian ones--especially the bass. There is a thread somewhere with the best settings for the EQ.

The OG truck had the automatic tonneau cover and mine was still working. I miss that on the new one. I did buy the interrobang tonneau and it is well made. But yeah I loved the auto one.

 

[Redline]

I'm on my second rivian. First one got totaled when we got creamed by a drunk driver. That, for me, was what makes me a life-long customer going forward. The way the vehicle held up and we walked away was simply amazing. And if there was nothing else that I liked about the truck, that alone was worth the price. I don't believe you will find a better built vehicle as far as safety than the R1T and R1S.

As far as the other questions. My first truck was a 3,000 VIN. Got it in March of 2021. It had some wind noise from the passenger triangle glass that they fixed. Later there were issues like the steering column piece that wasn't tightened to the right specs. They came to everybody's houses and checked and fixed that on the spot. The original truck also had some wind noise in the top glass piece as it was not perfectly aligned.

The new truck is VIN of 24000. It has almost no wind noise. The only issue I've seen with it is the hood is not perfectly aligned, but I haven't taken the time to have them fix it.

As for the SC they have been great in Atlanta. I never have issues getting an appointment. And they have always been really knowledgable and professional.

Oh only other issue I've had was on the OG truck, they messed up the registration and my temp tag expired and it took them several weeks to finally send me the stuff so I could just register it myself.

But on the new truck the registration was handled within the first few weeks I had the truck and therefore never even got my anxiety up.

In total, I am about 25,000 miles into Rivian driving. I would love to only have rivian vehicles in our family. And probably will eventually go that route, once the R2 is available. Cheaper and longer battery range are the only 2 obstacles now. Final thought: people that post on message boards are going to be more likely to be the ones that have issues. Most folks aren't taking time to post about how their vehicle is meeting/exceeding their expectations.

Feel free to DM me if you have more questions. I will do my best to answer.

Glad you're ok and still with us

 

[booslim45]

I was unlucky twice…once with terrible paint (vin 1500) and the next one with ongoing issues with the front driver’s side half-shaft. (Round 3 coming up at service center, waited 3 months for an appointment) I WANT the issues fixed cuz it’s an amazing vehicle overall….basically, you have 7 days/1000 miles to review the vehicle and if it’s not for you or you get bad vibes, return it.

I currently have the driver-side half shaft issue and Brooklyn Service center refuses to acknowledge it. I am ready to sell it and wait for a good used one to show up on the market.

 

[DaveA]

I currently have the driver-side half shaft issue and Brooklyn Service center refuses to acknowledge it. I am ready to sell it and wait for a good used one to show up on the market.

My thoughts exactly. May even go dual motor.

 

[EBEG]

Cars are probably the most complex item most of us interact with on a regular basis. There are likely tens of thousands of potential failure points. Rivians clearly have some problems and issues that need to be resolved. Having said that, based on my own experience of owning one for a full year (today!), watching many reviews of the vehicles by owners, professional car reviewers, and detailers, I have no problem saying that Rivians are very high quality.

 

[Cre8vtv]

I have been a long-time reservation holder slated for delivery in September/October of 2023. I expect to hear from a guide any day now. I love the R1S look and it was incredible to drive during my First Drive. Going from an R1S back to a gas powered car feels like traveling in a time machine and not in a good way. But I'm seriously considering cancelling and was within one button press of doing so tonight.

I have been following this forum as well as many of the others on Facebook. What I can't seem to get past is the reliability and quality of these vehicles. I can get over one or two misaligned panels, but it seems as though there are some major design flaws out there that get discovered on an almost daily basis. And there are also some major build quality issues, some of which impact safety (e.g., brake cabling issue). Most importantly, service sounds abysmal. The install base where I'm located is significantly lower right now than SoCal, but I hear stories about service in that area and it sounds like a nightmare. I worry about what happens when more trucks and SUVs get delivered in my area as Rivian tries to meet its objectives to make the street happy.

Any post in these forums that discusses quality issues is often met with some combination of the following responses:
- It's an "early adopter tax"
- "Mine was perfect, it's been to the service center seven times in the first three months of ownership but otherwise an amazing vehicle"
- "Mine had the same problem"
- "Mine had the same problem but its fixed now after being at the SC for three weeks"
- "Mine had the same problem plus these other things too."
- "Only people who have problems post in the forums. For every complaint there's 10 trucks/SUVs that are great." [I don't buy this.]
- "Every vehicle forum has hundreds of these same types of complaints." [I don't buy this either...go look at the RAV4 Prime Forum and you'll have a great point of comparison]
- And then one out of ten - "it's flawless, 400 miles and had it for a month."

I have owned five cars in my life - a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, a 2007 Infinity G35X, a 2011 BMW X3, and our two current vehicles - a 2017 Honda Pilot and a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The only one of the bunch that had a series of issues at purchase was -and this will not come as a surprise - the BMW. But BMW stood by their product and after the third major issue gave me a seven year platinum warranty on the house. (Funny enough from the moment they issued that warranty until last year when I traded it in, it never had any other major issues). The other four just had routine maintenance and tires with the RAV4 being the most solidly built car I've ever owned. (I specifically mention that one because people cite the electronics in the modern automobile as the issue...but the RAV4 has plenty of electronics in it).

So my genuine questions are as follows:
- Why this level of quality that Rivian is currently producing an expectation of the norm? It seems like the Rivian community is willing to accept this level of quality which to me is shocking - it's an $80-100k vehicle, depending on when you locked in pricing. Is it because many owners are moving from a Tesla where quality is historically known to be low quality? What I really don't get - whether you can afford it or not, a car that's valued at $100k is still $100k.
- Don't you worry about owning the vehicle over the long run? There's a whole host of things we know about, but what about the other stuff we don't? And don't people worry about the safety?

I really want to know what I'm missing here, and I'm not posting this to be inflammatory in any way. I respect all the people in this forum who already own Rivians. A bit jealous in fact. Every part of me wants to buy this thing, but everything I keep reading tells me it's a bad decision.

I think the KEY thing to remember is that this forum is where owners discuss issues, and thus, that's what you see here. Not may who are completely happy log on to chat up why they are happy. I too had concerns but must share that we've had ZERO issues thus far. My R1T is in the 11k SN area so relatively new with 6K miles thus far. Its had the one front suspension recall addressed, but otherwise good. YES, there are sometimes panel alignment issues with some of these just like found in Tesla and other. I believe the important thing to remember is that, just like buying a new Apple Computer, you will have updates and tweaks that are addressed after release. These are very advanced vehicles. They are aimed at the Range Rover owners (which I am) and I can tell you... the quality of build is very similar. Except you wont be paying 1K for an oil change or have their over the air updates cease the moment you are out of warranty. While I love both vehicles, I gotta say, the Rivian has won my heart thus far. I'm not a hard off roader, more about luxury with capability if needed kind of person.

 

[rob_d]

The above capture my thoughts on this.

My R1T (8 months) has had more issues than our last 4 Subarus, 2 Hondas, 1 Kia, and 1 Volvo combined.

I think the OP is perfectly reasonable in asking the question, should I make such a major purpose given the concerns with initial quality?

I also think Socal Rob's point above is dead-on... Would I buy it again? I would. Even with the growing pains, I love the truck.

[Edited to add an omitted car]

Thanks for your thoughts and I appreciate your genuine response. And your answer scratches at exactly what I was trying to get at. So with that you'e provided I'll ask a layer deeper - with a car that has all the problems of all your previous cars combined, what makes the Rivian so great that it trumps all the issues?

 

[LL75]

what makes the Rivian so great that it trumps all the issues?

It is a combination of long wait for the vehicle and also once you drove it, It is better than what you expected. It is hard to explain that feeling to be honest

 

[maddave12]

So with that you'e provided I'll ask a layer deeper - with a car that has all the problems of all your previous cars combined, what makes the Rivian so great that it trumps all the issues?

I think most of what we're experiencing is Rivian's failure to execute well, not long-term flaws with the vehicle or its design. I'm confident it'll be a stable, long-term, reliable vehicle as the bugs get ironed out. I typically keep my vehicles 10+ years, and I'm expecting the R1T will last just fine.

When I took my test drive, I started out skeptical, but came away thinking, "Wow... that was the best driving 4-wheeled vehicle I've ever experienced." It's not just fun, for me it fits like a glove. It's competent (outer body fragility notwithstanding). It feels good to drive.

Summed up: I've had several issues, but I still think it was worth dealing with them. I love my truck!

 

[SoCal Rob]

Thanks for your thoughts and I appreciate your genuine response. And your answer scratches at exactly what I was trying to get at. So with that you'e provided I'll ask a layer deeper - with a car that has all the problems of all your previous cars combined, what makes the Rivian so great that it trumps all the issues?

I think that a lot of this comes down to an individual’s relationship to cars, overall. There’s no right or wrong stance on this to this, either. Are you someone who sees cars rationally: only (or at least primarily) as a way to transport people, animals, and things from place to place with an emphasis on economy and reliability? Are you someone who sees cars as less rational and more emotional, even sensuous (relating to the senses rather than intellect; not sensual, there’s a difference): things of beauty and passion that excite the senses?

I’ve always been a passionate car person and so I fall firmly in the less rational/more emotional camp. I’d rather pay more for a car that I LOVE, and even put up with mechanical issues than pay less for a reliable car that makes me resentful or sad that I spent my money on it. I want to like the looks of my car, inside and out. I like good performance, handling, comfort, and capability. I want interesting features. Rivians are made for people like me: I get joy from it every time I walk up to it, drive it, and even wash it. I know some friends and family questioned my sanity for buying a new vehicle design from a new manufacturer, and I didn’t care.

To the rational people, we emotional car people make zero sense, and for good reason! I get the feeling that you’re more of a rational person when it comes to cars, and I think you’d be happier delaying the purchase of a Rivian until the company matures a bit with build quality and service network locations / appointment availability. Rivian got very ambitious with launching 3 products within a year and building out a network of service centers. I know that there was talk of partnering with Cox Automotive (IIRC) for mobile service, but that never materialized. Maybe it would‘ve helped or it could’ve made things worse? All I know is, if you’re looking for a guaranteed flawless vehicle with absolute reliability and a robust service network, this probably isn’t the path to happiness for you today.

To the people who passionately love cars irrationally, though: jump in, the water’s fine! I’ve never experienced a vehicle that crams so many positive attributes and so much capability into one package.

edit: missed a word

 

[SteveInBend]

@rob_d Seriously, after reading through 7 pages of this thread I think you should cancel your reservation and wait until you think Rivian has their act together.

 

[rob_d]

I think that a lot of this comes down to an individual’s relationship to cars, overall. There’s no right or wrong stance on this to this, either. Are you someone who sees cars rationally: only (or at least primarily) as a way to transport people, animals, and things from place to place with an emphasis on economy and reliability? Are you someone who sees cars as less rational and more emotional, even sensuous (relating to the senses rather than intellect; not sensual, there’s a difference): things of beauty and passion that excite the senses?

edit: missed a word

This is one of the best answers I've gotten so thank you! This will surprise you and anyone else following along. I actually would say I am both. I am passionate about cars, and follow the industry. I teach my kids about cars. My current ownership doesn't suggest it as a Honda Pilot and RAV4 aren't exactly sensual as you've described. But I have owned those types of vehicles in the past and I understand that feeling. When I drove the R1S, even for half an hour, I had that feeling that other cars I've had in my life brought me. Actually well beyond them.

At the same time, I'm at a place in my life both professionally and personally, where every minute of my day is scheduled. From 5am to 10pm, I am doing something. Inserting regular visits to the service center is not something I am equipped to necessarily manage. This highlights the reason for a Toyota and Honda purchase; we traded the BMW we owned because the thing wasn't reliable and I got tired of dealing with the dealership and expensive replacement parts (we had it for ten years). I think a lot of people read my post and assumed I'm a perfectionist or require a pristine vehicle. I don't with respect to the object itself; the question is whether I'll have the mental capacity and patience for service. Based on what I have going on in my life, there's a practical matter of the car just needing to work.

One final comment - given the install base of Rivian and where the company launched, lots of people posting in the forum are in warmer clients. I live in the Northeast and a main purpose of this vehicle will be getting me to and from ski locations in New England. Based on all that I've read I don't want to find myself stuck on the side of the road at 9 o'clock at night on a Friday with limited cell service in 10 degree weather. A bricked car in that scenario is not just inconvenient - it's a major safety issue for my family which can't be discounted.

So you can understand why I have this tension. Add to that the fact that my wife is 100% a rational, drive-it-till-it-dies person. (Put aside the moment that she will tell you "there's nothing wrong with our Pilot..." but if the RAV4 is parked in the driveway, which is much newer, she will take it 10 out of 10 times). I have her willing to go along with the decision at this point, but I think that is the other aspect of it.

I know people felt my question was not genuine or I am somehow trying to tarnish the brand with commentary before I even own it. But these are what I believe to be legitimate concerns and to your point, a highly personal one that I just need to make.

 

[SoCal Rob]

This is one of the best answers I've gotten so thank you! This will surprise you and anyone else following along. I actually would say I am both. I am passionate about cars, and follow the industry. I teach my kids about cars. My current ownership doesn't suggest it as a Honda Pilot and RAV4 aren't exactly sensual as you've described. But I have owned those types of vehicles in the past and I understand that feeling. When I drove the R1S, even for half an hour, I had that feeling that other cars I've had in my life brought me. Actually well beyond them.

At the same time, I'm at a place in my life both professionally and personally, where every minute of my day is scheduled. From 5am to 10pm, I am doing something. Inserting regular visits to the service center is not something I am equipped to necessarily manage. This highlights the reason for a Toyota and Honda purchase; we traded the BMW we owned because the thing wasn't reliable and I got tired of dealing with the dealership and expensive replacement parts (we had it for ten years). I think a lot of people read my post and assumed I'm a perfectionist or require a pristine vehicle. I don't with respect to the object itself; the question is whether I'll have the mental capacity and patience for service. Based on what I have going on in my life, there's a practical matter of the car just needing to work.

One final comment - given the install base of Rivian and where the company launched, lots of people posting in the forum are in warmer clients. I live in the Northeast and a main purpose of this vehicle will be getting me to and from ski locations in New England. Based on all that I've read I don't want to find myself stuck on the side of the road at 9 o'clock at night on a Friday with limited cell service in 10 degree weather. A bricked car in that scenario is not just inconvenient - it's a major safety issue for my family which can't be discounted.

So you can understand why I have this tension. Add to that the fact that my wife is 100% a rational, drive-it-till-it-dies person. (Put aside the moment that she will tell you "there's nothing wrong with our Pilot..." but if the RAV4 is parked in the driveway, which is much newer, she will take it 10 out of 10 times). I have her willing to go along with the decision at this point, but I think that is the other aspect of it.

I know people felt my question was not genuine or I am somehow trying to tarnish the brand with commentary before I even own it. But these are what I believe to be legitimate concerns and to your point, a highly personal one that I just need to make.

I think your wife should play a factor here, too, given your description of her priorities. I suspect that she will not be amused if you go from a known vehicle built by an established manufacturer to something which causes any issues.

An issue could even be unrelated to the specific vehicle: like being on vacation in a place where you can’t charge on site and an area-wide power outage means there are no charging options so you cannot leave.

My husband and I are both car guys so we don’t have the rational control mechanism most relationships have when it comes to cars. If I was married to someone who wasn’t as enamored with cars in general, I am sure I would’ve made a lot of car decisions differently over the years to keep a happy home life. My version of a classic: Happy spouse, happy house.

I love our Rivian and I own stock in the company but, as much as a stranger on the internet can offer unbiased advice: I wouldn’t pull the trigger if I were in your shoes. At least, not yet. Maybe when your schedule is more relaxed and/or Rivian has matured a bit. This is why I’m not in sales.

 

[booslim45]

My thoughts exactly. May even go dual motor.

I agree. I have an R1S reservation and plan to make it a dual motor.

Sponsored