It's July 1, who get's a delivery this month?

[RWerksman]

Tesla had two unique benefits:

1. They were the only real EV choice for a significant period of time.
2. They were the first (or most prominent, at the time) to create/have many of these problems.

People put up with Tesla because they had to. Tesla is going to struggle as more startups begin deliveries and legacy automakers are now delivering compelling EV products. Also, Tesla has exhausted a lot of people's patience, and I think the public's willingness to put up with shenanigans has been reduced, as a result.

Both correct and fast. ? Tesla got (and gets) away with it because they were the only option.

My experience in pre-ownership and delivery of my 2012 Model S was pretty terrible. The ownership experience was even worse. It's the only car that I miss when I think back about, mainly because there still isn't a really good non-Tesla comparative option for under $100k.

In 5 years nobody going to rivian.com and ordering an R1T or R1S will be concerned about the experience of a 2018 pre-order holder.

Your scale of thinking isn't correct. It's not like 2018 reservation holders will all poof and go away in 5 years, just like all of the reservation holders. If the pattern of under-delivering continues, the pre-ownership process will keep coming up as people voice their frustration.

As an example, the Launch Edition Jeep Gladiator was anything but. When the Gladiator was having issues with the steering box / loose steering, you better believe it was referenced repeatedly. For some folks, it was a combination of factors including getting there LE JT late that caused them to sell early. That slightly depressed prices and made it worse for every JT owner ... at least until the run up of used car values.

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[DucRider]

That said, could you imagine the blow-back Ford would have if they pushed the F150 Lightning delivery dates back from Spring 2022 to Fall 2022,

A definite possibility bordering on likely at this point

 

[RWerksman]

A definite possibility bordering on likely at this point

Maybe.

Here is coverage of the launch of the Mach E. Notice the delivery timeline was, "Late 2020." Deliveries started in 2020. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows though - Ford delayed delivery of about 4,500 Mach E units. They then issued $1,000 credits or 250kw of free charging to those who were impacted. Here is another article about that. It sucks for sure, but I think it was handled well.

Here is another instance from Ford, this time about the Bronco. It explains the delay, identifies a way for a pre-order holder to get their Bronco faster, and again offers free stuff. Again sucks, but handled as well as can be expected.

If Ford does delay the Lightning to the fall, I think they'll do it 2 days before Spring or if they'll bury it in the middle of a fluff-piece and bill it as only a one month delay. Only after stripping some content from it though. /s

Here is the complete quote that you omitted the most important part of:

could you imagine the blow-back Ford would have if they pushed the F150 Lightning delivery dates back from Spring 2022 to Fall 2022, then Summer 2023, then Summer 2024?

If Ford does delay the F150 Lightning 2.5 years until Summer of 2024 it would be catastrophic to Ford's electrification plans. Large amounts of shareholder value would be wiped out. People would lose their jobs.

If they delay until the summer? I think we have a good idea on what would happen there...

 

[DucRider]

Maybe.

Here is coverage of the launch of the Mach E. Notice the delivery timeline was, "Late 2020." Deliveries started in 2020. It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows though - Ford delayed delivery of about 4,500 Mach E units. They then issued $1,000 credits or 250kw of free charging to those who were impacted. Here is another article about that. It sucks for sure, but I think it was handled well.

Here is another instance from Ford, this time about the Bronco. It explains the delay, identifies a way for a pre-order holder to get their Bronco faster, and again offers free stuff. Again sucks, but handled as well as can be expected.

If Ford does delay the Lightning to the fall, I think they'll do it 2 days before Spring or if they'll bury it in the middle of a fluff-piece and bill it as only a one month delay. Only after stripping some content from it though. /s

Here is the complete quote that you omitted the most important part of:



If Ford does delay the F150 Lightning 2.5 years until Summer of 2024 it would be catastrophic to Ford's electrification plans. Large amounts of shareholder value would be wiped out. People would lose their jobs.

If they delay until the summer? I think we have a good idea on what would happen there...

You seem surprised that a startup with very few employees that was tasked with refurbing and building a factory and lines from the ground up while continuing development of their final product experienced delays and changes from the concept vehicle they originally showed. They also had to plan and build a service and delivery network (that likely wound up very different than originally anticipated). The additional investments and Amazon orders also likely changed (and delayed) the way and scale from the original plans.

If you read your preorder agreement they never promised any delivery date. And their announcements gave targets that wound up changing. And yes, some features were removed but the price also decreased from the reveal.

Ford may experience multiple delays (only time will tell), but they are much less likely to have the same degree of issues as a company starting from ground zero. Anyone expecting Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, etc to be able to develop and produce products in the same fashion as established automakers is almost certain to be disappointed. It's not a Rivian issue, but an expectation issue. Sometimes common sense isn't so common.

 

[RWerksman]

You seem surprised that a startup with very few employees that was tasked with refurbing and building a factory and lines from the ground up while continuing development of their final product experienced delays and changes from the concept vehicle they originally showed. They also had to plan and build a service and delivery network (that likely wound up very different than originally anticipated). The additional investments and Amazon orders also likely changed (and delayed) the way and scale from the original plans.

If you read your preorder agreement they never promised any delivery date. And their announcements gave targets that wound up changing. And yes, some features were removed but the price also decreased from the reveal.

Ford may experience multiple delays (only time will tell), but they are much less likely to have the same degree of issues as a company starting from ground zero. Anyone expecting Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, etc to be able to develop and produce products in the same fashion as established automakers is almost certain to be disappointed. It's not a Rivian issue, but an expectation issue. Sometimes common sense isn't so common.

I, and we as a group, should expect that any business that we deal with operate with a customer-centric philosophy. My example with Ford illustrates how they are remediating their setbacks in a customer first way.

In regard to Rivian - they chose their communications approach. They purchased the factory. They took the funding with the tradeoffs that came along with it. The set every single deadline they've missed. No one said it was going to be easy, but they chose to build because they think they can do it. No one, "tasked" them with doing anything - it was all considered and selected deliberately. They aren't country rubes just doin' the best they can, gosh darn it - they have a plan and are executing on it.

I don't like how they are handing communications to date, and I think that is reasonable.
I don't like how they've taken away some content from the truck, and I think that is reasonable.
I don't like that they've repeatedly blown delivery dates that they themselves have set.

Does that make me a more difficult than average customer? Perhaps so. I still want the truck, and I'm well aware of the preorder agreement I've signed, and that I can take my deposit back if I change my mind.

 

[rob0115]

As I recall, Ford did push back the delivery date of the MachE. This year Tesla pushed back the delivery date of the revised Model S, Model X and canceled the Plaid+. Previously, they pushed back the delivery date of the initial Model 3s. They are highly likely not to deliver any Cybertrucks in 2021. There is a good chance, I think, that Ford will be late with the F-150 Lightning.

I’m thinking 2021 cybertruck availability is virtually nil.

 

[flabyboy]

I’m thinking 2021 cybertruck availability is virtually nil.

100%. I have my doubts about 2022 as well. Not that I care as I think it is really ugly and impractical

 

[dfx]

I had saved all of my emails from Nissan from 11 years ago when I ordered a Leaf. The communication frequency was pretty similar to what I've received from Rivian thus far. In July of 2010 they gave a delivery date for most states of Fall/Winter 2011 and I received delivery in November.
The fact that the R1T has been delayed a few weeks isn't a big deal in the whole grand scheme of things but when you are a first adopter on pre-order, it's pretty easy to get antsy about it. I know I am. I will say that the online/phone support has been much better than what I received from Nissan and Tesla.
July 22 is right around the corner and I was happy to see that date published in the Car and Driver article for the start of deliveries although it was subsequently edited to read "later this month". Either way within 3 weeks we'll be seeing R1T's rolling out which will be great.

 

[SoCal Rob]

I, and we as a group, should expect that any business that we deal with operate with a customer-centric philosophy. My example with Ford illustrates how they are remediating their setbacks in a customer first way.

An expectation that any business has a customer-centric philosophy is ideal, but not the reality I’ve experienced. Also, I think it’s naive to think that every single Ford customer is satisfied with their communications and remediation efforts related to their launch problems.

I don't like how they are handing communications to date, and I think that is reasonable.
I don't like how they've taken away some content from the truck, and I think that is reasonable.
I don't like that they've repeatedly blown delivery dates that they themselves have set.

I think that many people understand these things when discussing a new company trying to launch three new vehicles while building out a support network during a pandemic with impact on supply of labor, materials, and components. Established automakers have been known to change features, designs, materials, etc. when people compare a concept car to what is eventually produced. Some consumers complain while others understand.

Does that make me a more difficult than average customer? Perhaps so. I still want the truck, and I'm well aware of the preorder agreement I've signed, and that I can take my deposit back if I change my mind.

If I were as dissatisfied with Rivian as you seem to be, I’d vote with my wallet by canceling my reservation, getting my $1000 back, and not buying their product. That’s what profit-driven companies understand and it is healthier for me because I doubt I will change their behavior by writing a strongly-worded letter to them directly, certainly not indirectly via a forum related to their product.

By holding our reservations we are telling them that the anticipated end result justifies whatever frustrations we encounter along the way. I doubt they’ll change because of complaints here… certainly not soon.

 

[kanundrum]

From a Twitter user who is ubering engineers around:

Large white tents built outside the factory being used for inventory and prepping for deliveries. Didn't say how soon the deliveries would start.

 

[AdamsFan1983]

From a Twitter user who is ubering engineers around:

Time for someone with a drone, to make it happen.............

 

[Hmp10]

Time for someone with a drone, to make it happen.............

Several videographers have been flying drones over Lucid's new factory in Casa Grande, AZ. However, Lucid is now taking steps to hinder the flyovers by having their security personnel challenge them. One videographer, "Bear's Workshop", tried to push back and is still using a drone, but he's now filming from the periphery of the property rather than directly over it.

I've searched YouTube to see if there are any Rivan factory drone flyovers that I've missed. I could find none.

Maybe Rivian has been more aggressive in preventing them? As Rivian has triple the reservations of Lucid, I'd be surprised if there's less interest in the Rivian factory than the Lucid factory.

 

[GaryL]

I checked satellite photos this morning. We have had way to much cloud cover for the last 2 weeks to see anything. Clear here today and tomorrow but I am not sure of the next satellite fly over that area. There were no tents up as of 7/4/21

 

[Gshenderson]

I’m sure SpaceX has a few satellites watching over things. ?

 

[TessP100D]

I’m thinking 2021 cybertruck availability is virtually nil.

You are correct. I have fully expected the CT to reach customers in 2023., and not before.

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