20" Inch Affordable high efficiency 20" wheels and 33" tires options (275/60R20)

[ksurfier]

Comment:
- your template is an interesting attempt to standardize, but it doesn't appear to have any accounting for net gain/loss in elevation, which makes a very large difference (as an example, I have a standard section of highway I use for efficiency testing; it is 1.2km long and has an 18m elevation difference - a 1.5% grade. I run tests in both directions and from a test-run yesterday I had 2.54 km/kWh heading uphill and 5.46 km/kWh heading downhill! [My test protocol is to get up to speed, reset trip meter, take the reading at the end of the 1.2km section])

Question:
- why the fixation on tire weight? And you brushed off rolling resistance earlier too....

Shoot, I wrote a long reply and just lost it…
Tire weight is the best indicator for rolling resistance and also MPK, what does your testing indicate?

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[goldburger]

Tire weight is the best indicator for rolling resistance

Pretty sure tread pattern and rubber composition is what I’ve seen tire companies use to refer to rolling resistance. Tire weight becomes negligible at steady speeds, according to things I’ve read on the forums and elsewhere.

 

[ksurfier]

Pretty sure tread pattern and rubber composition is what I’ve seen tire companies use to refer to rolling resistance. Tire weight becomes negligible at steady speeds, according to things I’ve read on the forums and elsewhere.

There are many variables at play, rolling resistance is dynamic, weight is certainly a major factor, this is why 55 # tires are getting less than 2 MPK and a 34# tire is getting almost 3 MPK...

Here's an excerpt from Auto Eng1 (www.euromotor.org):

"The picture shows the influence of velocity on the rolling resistance. The initially gradually rising characteristic of the rolling resistance coefficient, which rises progressively at a fluctuating speed range according to interpretation, is due to the superimposed effect of the the deformation wave on the flexion resistance. This effect increases with velocity.
In the case of H-type (up to 210 km/h (131 mph)) and V-type (up to 240 km/h (149 mph)) tires, the increased tyre rigidity attenuates the influence of the deformation wave formation. Thus the progressively rising phase of the rolling resistance begins at a higher speed and in a less noticeable way.
For computer simulations of rolling resistance, the dependence of rolling resistance on velocity can be approached by an investigation, which is obtained empirically while tyre-specific values are used for the constants C0, C1, and C2. For a reference speed of (62 mph), for a HR-type tyre the constants are approximately:
In summary, the following can be stated:
Apart from the external influences - velocity, wheel load, and tyre pressure, the rolling resistance depends on tyre design, materials and the rubber mixture used. Thus the radial ply tyre generally has a smaller rolling resistance compared the bias ply tyre. Moreover the tyre tread configuration has an influence on the rolling resistance. Small tread depths and a fine tread configuration reduce the resistance force while the compensating effect of the fine-structured tyre treads decreases with increasing speed.
The magnitudes of the individual components of resistance, i.e. flexing, frictional, and aerodynamic resistance cannot be precisely recorded by measurements. It can only be said with certainty that the flexing resistance forms the largest component of the rolling resistance. In order to measure the total rolling resistance, there are basically two different methods available. The road test has advantages from the point of view of a realistic road and basic conditions. It is however difficult to maintain the given test parameters as a result of external sources of disturbance such as weather conditions, non uniform or changing road surface, and traffic, all of which are necessary for reproducible tyre tests."

 

[0ut0fenergy]

Pretty sure tread pattern and rubber composition is what I’ve seen tire companies use to refer to rolling resistance. Tire weight becomes negligible at steady speeds, according to things I’ve read on the forums and elsewhere.

Tire weight is still factored at cruising speed because heavier unsprung rotating mass still requires more energy to continue its pace.

 

[strykerwsu]

I have a 1k trip in 50 to 75 degree weather coming up. I have new Pirelli AS+3 (115H) on 20 inch Atomic 10's. Will report what I get for efficiency. I have sliders but haven't noticed any difference since installed.

 

[strykerwsu]

I have a 1k trip in 50 to 75 degree weather coming up. I have new Pirelli AS+3 (115H) on 20 inch Atomic 10's. Will report what I get for efficiency. I have sliders but haven't noticed any difference since installed.

1st leg of 500 miles into a steady 30 mph wind at 77 mph avg was 1.85. So given the conditions not terrible. Will report back on hopefully better conditions on trip home.

 

[Nachyomama]

Curious if those of you getting new after market wheels, are you selling the OEM wheels? If so, are you concerned about resale value? I switched to 20s from EV sport line with AT3W for winter. I was hoping to put other/new tires on the 21” OEM wheels for summer but I don’t think anything has come out yet

 

[LL75]

Curious if those of you getting new after market wheels, are you selling the OEM wheels? If so, are you concerned about resale value? I switched to 20s from EV sport line with AT3W for winter. I was hoping to put other/new tires on the 21” OEM wheels for summer but I don’t think anything has come out yet

I still have the originial 21". I'm not gonna spend more money on the OEM 21" Pirelli. (which lasted 16K miles for me). According to discount tires guy, the Michelin defender LTX m/2 should be out by this summer.

 

[strykerwsu]

I have both 21 and 20 OEM. Will be selling the 21's in a couple of weeks. Only put about 3k on them, really good driving characteristics. Just didn't want to have to deal with so few options of tires.

 

[LL75]

1st leg of 500 miles into a steady 30 mph wind at 77 mph avg was 1.85. So given the conditions not terrible. Will report back on hopefully better conditions on trip home.

How was the efficiency on the way back? I'm doing a 200 miles trip in couple days too and will report the efficiency on the grabbers hts60.

 

[EarlyAdptr]

I just completed a 2,750 mile round trip from Seattle to Palm Springs. Just before leaving, I purchased new Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 tires (275/60-R20). I didn't have time to get several hundred miles on the tires as other have suggested is important for getting a good read on range performance. Temperatures where between 55 and 70 degrees, but mostly low to mid 60's. Cold tire pressure set to 49 PSI, and generally got up to 51 - 52 during highway speeds. I was in Conserve mode almost 100% of the time, except for limited city driving (< 25 miles).

I did have a sense that the last day (12 hours) range performance was better than the prior few days (2.40+), but that's not very scientific. Here are my results:

Accounting for the 3% loss due to the different tire diameter (R60 vs R65 OEM), I calculate a 2.10 mi/kwh (2.17 - 3% or 0.07).

Hope that's helpful.

 

[ksurfier]

What was the average speed?
If you were averaging 72 mph then that sounds correct…2.2 MPK at 72 mph if 70f, 2.0 MPK at 72 mph is 55f…

 

[ForeverOnTheWaitlist]

@EarlyAdptr
How did the MS2's handle ? Aside from the width, the M/S 2's seem like ideal tires in the wear, lifespan, weight rating category. I saw one poster elsewhere complain about handling (lost the thread) but Defender's seem great in most areas. GEOLANDAR CV 4S looks interesting but not available yet in 265/60/20.

 

[EarlyAdptr]

What was the average speed?
If you were averaging 72 mph then that sounds correct…2.2 MPK at 72 mph if 70f, 2.0 MPK at 72 mph is 55f…

Good question. I'd say I AVERAGED about 70 MPH. I generally set my cruise control at 73 when speed limit was 65 or 70.

Of course that average of 70 should be reduced by 3% for the tire size difference - so 67.9 MPH.

 

[EarlyAdptr]

@EarlyAdptr
How did the MS2's handle ? Aside from the width, the M/S 2's seem like ideal tires in the wear, lifespan, weight rating category. I saw one poster elsewhere complain about handling (lost the thread) but Defender's seem great in most areas. GEOLANDAR CV 4S looks interesting but not available yet in 265/60/20.

I'd say the handling was just fine. I didn't notice any difference from my OEM AT tires. But, I'm not sure I'd notice a difference unless it was pretty major

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